How Can Introverts Authentically Promote Themselves and Succeed | Nancy Ancowitz

TRANSCRIPT

Roger:  How can an introvert build the confidence to get what they want? Whether it's speaking up in meetings, stepping on stage to give a presentation, or advocating for themselves, how does an introvert push past their discomfort to achieve their goals? Well, Nancy Ankiewicz can tell you.

Nancy:  I do enjoy public speaking because I reframe it.

I'm not going to run after public speaking opportunities, but I see them as an opportunity to get the word out efficiently and efficient use of my energy to help other people. And then I feel jazzed. I feel excited. Like, I want to do this. Like I want to talk to you today

Roger:  As a career strategist and a pioneer in the popular introvert literature, including her book “Self-Promotion for Introverts®” and her articles in the New York times and The Wall Street Journal, Nancy has been helping introverts stand up and shine for a long time.

Nancy:  Couldn't be happier when I'm helping a client. I realize their strengths. That is such a source of joy for me. Endless joy.

Roger:  Nancy joins us to share her superpower helping introverts master Self-Promotion and in doing so she emphasizes a familiar set of themes that we've heard in many of these conversations and that's curiosity, empathy, And connection to compliment those themes.

Nancy also provides a framework for introverts to have more confidence in getting more of what they want in life. And for you extroverts, there's something in today's discussion for you too.

Nancy:  And I also want to say introvert, extrovert, they're not meant to be labels. They're meant to be. Tools for self reflection to know yourself and know how you can interact with others and the world more effectively.

Roger:  While Nancy's superpowers focus on helping introverts, extroverts can benefit from Nancy's framework as well by being more prepared for public speaking situations, as well as to better understand how to create space for introverts to thrive and collaborate with us. There's something for everyone. Hi, I'm Roger Kastner and welcome to the what do you know to be true podcast.

In these conversations, I speak with everyday people about their extraordinary skill, their superpower, and the meaningful impact it has on others. The goal is not to try to emulate or hack our way to a new talent. Instead, The intention is to learn more about their experience with their superpower so that we can learn something about the special talent in each of us that drives us towards our potential.

If you're ready, let's dive in.

Hi, Nancy. Thank you for joining me here today.

Nancy:  Hi, so nice to be here, Roger, and seeing you again after your appearance at my NYU class. Thank you.

Roger:  Oh, that was so much fun. I had a great time. Thank you for inviting me there. Yeah. So Nancy, I know you to be a coach who specializes in personal branding, presentation skills, and career advancement strategies.

You're the author of “Self-Promotion for Introverts®”. You're currently the career director and instructor of business Communications at NYU. You've written about introversion for psychology today, since 2009, and you've had articles published in the New York Times Wall Street Journal and. Forbes. And I see in your background, you've been a playwright, you've done improv, you're a marathoner and a vegan.

Two of those four things we have in common. Uh, what I, what I'd love to start off with is what's important for us to know about Nancy Englewitz.

Nancy:  So much that we can talk about today and we'll put a little spotlight on ways, particularly that introverts can get the word out there about the benefits they offer.

Based on my book, “Self-Promotion for Introverts®” let's get it out there. Let's get the word out there while remaining authentic.

Roger:  Yeah, that, that sounds so important, this idea of being authentic as you're trying to promote yourself. Tell me a little bit more about that, about authenticity and Self-Promotion.

Nancy:  When is the last time, Roger, someone promoted themselves to you with bravado? That you bought

Speaker 4: What you were excited about I answer it's a little rhetorical unless you think otherwise

Roger:  Well, it makes me think about the last time I was talking about myself and maybe promoting myself and did it come across as As too much bravado

Nancy:  I think there's a line between bravado and authenticity.

If bravado is natural to who you are and how you express yourself, and you can shine the light on what you offer other parties, then I think it's okay. I think it's okay. As long as it's not just focused on me, me, me, um, putting other people down. Um, bragging, boosting, inflating what you've got and instead saying what you have.

That other people, other organizations, other causes need, as long as you're framing it that way, then bravado away.

Roger:  Oh, I, this is such good advice because I know where, where I think I have let bravado. Too much bravado out there. And I don't think it lands as well as when I'm not thinking about how it connects with the other person.

And in fact, it was, um, a little over a year ago when I was talking to someone about the work that I do. Um, and they said, wow, you seem really passionate about it. I'm like, yes, I'm very passionate about the work that I do. And then, you know, that thought you have on the way home, the thought I had on my way home was wait.

Was that a compliment? Is that a good thing that I'm passionate about it? So I actually called my friend and asked them and they said, you know, they're, they're also a coach. And so they were very good and didn't answer the question, but led me through a series of questions and then said, I wonder if you could be a little bit more curious About how your path with the thing you're passionate about how it's landing on other people and it just the lightbulb moment about Oh, right, we're communicating to be able to create connection.

We're communicating to learn from each other. And I think I might have spent too much time communicating with a sense of let me tell you about why Rogers awesome. And not enough time about, Hey, how we can work together. So we can be awesome.

Nancy:  You summed it up. I appreciate your self reflection and being willing to be vulnerable to share that.

And you've really summed up a key point, which is lead with curiosity rather than, and this ties into a lot of the work I do, which is Be curious, be connected, listen actively, and share in a relevant way, rather than feeling that networking or Self-Promotion has to be monologuing. Most people don't want you to monologue on them.

Instead, show curiosity, Make a connection, lead with that, and you can't fail.

Roger:  And, and maybe the universe is like smacking me upside the head in multiple, multiple ways, because I'm thinking about a lot of the conversations that we've had in this podcast series has been about authentic connections has been around, um, vulnerability, curiosity.

You know, being able to find what we have in common and then being able to build from that and that being other people's superhero powers. So this, this just feels like another part of, of by learning and hopefully other people's learning again by pulling all these things together. And I also am thinking about, you know, the.

The introverts that I know, or I should say the people I know who are really good at creating connection, at being curious, at, you know, continuing to ask questions and being really good listeners tend to be those that show though, you know, come from a more of a, I would say, are probably more of an introvert.

introvert traits. And I know someone who's also introverted who, or comes from that, that, that style where they've talked about how growing up one of their ways of, you know, managing their energy was to. Ask a lot of questions, almost, almost as a way of not self defense doesn't sound right. But if you go into a situation where you're not comfortable, just keep asking questions was the thing that she learned from a very young age.

Um, and so when I, when we talk about curiosity, asking questions, being good listeners, I sort of associate that. Those things with, um, the, the people who I also know to be introverts, whereas, you know, extroverts, you know, are, are, are they coming, coming to the same party with that sense of curiosity, with that sense of listening, with that sense of making connections?

I don't know. Are you seeing themes there?

Nancy:  I believe anyone can learn listening skills and you're right. Extroverts and introverts, they're coming from a different place. I think asking good questions is a fantastic skill to have and a skill that anyone can learn like a lot of these things, which is coming from different angles.

And I also want to say, introvert, extrovert, they're not meant to be labels. They're meant to be tools for self reflection to know yourself and know how you can interact with others and the world more effectively. Otherwise if it becomes labels, it's, it's useless. It's, it's just, uh, I don't think it's, it's helpful, but in terms of asking questions, um, I know when somebody peppers me with a lot of questions, sometimes I feel my back going against the wall, like they're being invasive.

Even if that's, and sometimes they ask them out of nervousness, just to talk, it seems. So I think asking questions is great. As long as you hold space for the to, to give, get the answer and connect with the answer rather than tying into one of your recent podcast episodes I was listening to, which is thinking about the next question you're gonna ask or thinking about the next comment you're gonna make.

Roger:  Yeah. And, and to be clear, that's what I said, not the guest who is an expert in listening. , my listening . Yeah. And, and, and I think, no, no, no. I think, I think it's, um. You know, again, part of my learning has been, and I think it's, it really goes back to, you know, I have a need to be acknowledged. I have a need to be recognized.

And, um, I don't think I'm uncommon in that way. And so I think there's this, this push to want to share. And I've even thought about like my way, my traditional way of being empathetic is you tell me a story. And instead of me asking to understand, I would respond. By telling another story where I think it's similar and I'm thinking I'm creating connection and probably the person who's hearing it is thinking, Oh, is he trying to one up me or.

Like that's not, that's not what my experience was like at all. And so, yeah, I'm finding the fallacy in my, my reactions by trying to create connection is actually create a distance. And now I think there's something around, you know, asking questions and demonstrating empathy, feeling with the person and that you understand those feelings and Being curious of those feelings are connected.

And then, and then maybe there's the opportunity for me to share my story of like, you know, the time I felt that way, this is what happens. Something like that, I think is going to create much more connection than maybe my, the lazy approach I've done traditionally of just saying, Oh, like, like you had this happen.

I had it happen too.

Nancy:  Huh? I'm going to say that one is situational for me. I can't tell you what to do. I know. If I want to tell you a story which makes me vulnerable and it's hard for me and I'm trying to process something, I'd like you to listen and be curious, maybe show empathy, maybe validate something.

But if we're hanging out telling, you know, really funny stories, I'll tell my story, we get a chuckle, I'm going to hear your story. And that gives me as an introvert, a talk break.

Speaker 4: I get to listen. So I think that's great. It depends on your audience and the situation. What do you think?

Roger:  I think, I think you're, you're spot on with the context and the situation.

Like if you are being vulnerable, I am going to create more connection with you if I acknowledge that, but to acknowledge that before I jump into, Oh yeah, that time that you were feeling that you took that risk, that you were feeling vulnerable. Let me tell you about the time I did. It, it, it does feel a little bit.

Um, yeah, trying to either top or even compete and not recognizing and going deeper into those, that, that connection around shared emotion.

Nancy:  Or actually I'm going to tell you the time that I had it much worse.

Roger:  Right? You, you've had pain. I've had pain. Let me tell you about pain. Yeah.

Speaker 4: We

Nancy:  have the miserability

Speaker 4: Olympics.

Roger:  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And I think, I don't think my experience has been uncommon. Um, but I, but I, I love that idea of, you know, asking questions, not as a sense of, you know, managing my energy and being, you know, sort of protective of my energy or my vulnerability, but as a way of, of, you know, not only demonstrating that you're listening and that you're hearing, but you're curious to understand more.

And, um, it makes me think about the, the Dale Carnegie quote about like, to be interesting, you need to be interested. Right. Right. Right. I think it's really about creating authentic connections. With people and deep in the relationships that happen by being curious and asking questions and yeah Really listening to and following where the energy is

Nancy:  We both run marathons and I view this connection thing as definitely more of a marathon than a sprint Especially for an introvert.

I don't build instant rapport with people I try like I try to

Speaker 4: smile I try to say positive things. I try to really listen And do all, all this good stuff.

Nancy:  At the end of the day, I have deep, significant relationships that last over the decades from the beginning of my career, my first boss, I'm still good friends with.

That's what makes me tick is, and I, I'm gonna tie this into the idea of networking for an introvert, getting to know people, building trust. Staying in touch, being your authentic self and giving and getting both giving and getting with a heavy emphasis in my case, giving, giving, giving, giving, seeing how you can help

Roger:  your superhero power of Self-Promotion for introvert.

I'm curious. What. Or who inspired your superhero power?

Nancy:  I am an introvert. I found that out on wall street when I took the Myers Briggs type indicator and it made such sense for me. It gave context to why I don't love large meetings. I like relationships, ideally with one person at a time, going deep over time.

I like to think before I speak or act. So all these things, it was Myers Briggs, like the light went off. And doing that on Wall Street helped me start. calling different tips and tools. And when I decided to leave wall street, after a career break, I took a sabbatical. I was planning on going back. It was supposed to be three months, then six, then nine, then 12.

I couldn't extend anymore. And then I decided, you know what? It's been great. I'm going to go. I'm going to start my own. Whatever you

Speaker 4: call it, business.

Nancy:  I learned that there's so much that I have to offer to people who also describe themselves or relate to introversion, whether it's in networking, public speaking, interview skills, so many things.

And. I decided I've always dreamt of writing a book, so I wrote a book about it and it, it opened up so many things to help so many people. So the drive for me was to express myself in a way that would genuinely help other people.

Roger:  And so do you have a framework or a process you follow when you're using your superhero power of self-promotion for introverts?

Nancy:  Oh, thank you. Listening, finding out about your audience, and finding out what you have in common and what you have that they need.

Roger:  And I love that, that idea of what you have in common and what do they, what, what need do they have? Because you can only find that out through curiosity, through listening, through developing those, those authentic relationship.

Nancy:  And showing that you care. Or connecting to your feeling of caring. And when you care, then at least for me, it's how can I help this person? What do they need? Do they need a job? Do they need a promotion? Do they need. more money in their life? Do they need more of a sense of fulfillment in what they do? Do they need to be seen more?

Do they need to be heard more? Do they sit at business meetings silent because they're afraid they'll sound stupid? Do they not do public speaking because they're afraid their hands are going to jitter, their face is going to sweat, and they're going to, uh, their imposter syndrome is going to be completely, everybody can see what a fool they are.

So that doesn't sound good. So what, what is it?

Roger:  Well, and I, I'm thinking about your process and that third step of what do we have in common?

Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

Roger:  The questions you just talked about, the afflictions, the stress, the not talking up in meetings, the nervousness when doing public speaking. Can, can you relate to those things?

Maybe something in your past?

Nancy:  Now you're digging. I don't like, I don't like the group meetings. Okay. Let's put it out there. I don't like big group meetings, but I have a hack. I have a workaround or two or three. Even though I don't like big group meetings because I find it hard to get a word in edgewise and there are hacks for it, which if you ask me, I'll tell you.

But anyhow, I do enjoy public speaking because I reframe it, and this ties into some studies, as a an opportunity to feel excited about something. As an introvert, you're not gonna, I'm not gonna run after public speaking opportunities because I'd rather be home alone. But I see them as an opportunity to get the word out efficiently, an efficient use of my energy to help other people.

And then I feel jazzed. I feel excited. Like, I want to do this. Like, I want to talk to you today. And instead of listing all the ways of how your audience is going to judge me.

Roger:  Mm hmm. Mm hmm. The thing we focus on.

Nancy:  Oh,

Roger:  it's usually the thing we get, right?

Nancy:  Um, the judge, yeah,

Roger:  yeah. And it's, it, it reminds me, you know, lesson I learned, um, skein years ago of like, if you stare at the tree. You will hit the tree. If you stare at the space between the tree, you will go between the trees. Um, but I think there's, there's something that, that, that ties into that law of attraction. If you are thinking about, if you let the big bad wolf into the conversation, you're going to hear a lot of scary things.

You're going to feel a lot of nervousness, but what you mentioned about hacks. The hacks for being, you know, talking in the in the crowded, you know, the full meeting room or maybe for public speaking. What are some of those hacks?

Nancy:  Another research based hack that I like is Speak to yourself in the second or third person.

So give yourself a little pep speech before that public speaking event, before the networking event, before the job interview, or even the coffee chat for networking purposes, saying instead of I've got this, or I can do this, or I will succeed at this, which is a nice affirmation, but turn it into the you or the Nancy.

So Nancy's got this. Nancy is excited to talk to Roger today because he's a wonderful podcaster. He goes deep, he offers valuable things to his audiences. So it's reframing that whatever reframing it first into the second or third person.

Roger:  I've, I've heard a similar process of like, what's the thing, if your best friend was going through this thing, what would you tell them?

Nancy:  Sure.

Roger:  And it sounds, I'm connecting that with this of like, why, you know, maybe, maybe you can be your own best friend.

Nancy:  Yeah. Sure. And to that end, your own best friend and your listeners can do this right now, put your feet on the ground. Assuming you're sitting, probably most people listen to these things sitting, I think maybe walking, but if you're sitting, put both feet on the ground and feel them.

Feel them on the ground. And you could even take one hand. There's a, an old Indian tradition that believes in this, that you put one finger to the other feeling that we're just touching them together, or just rubbing your fingers together. You don't necessarily want to do that during an interview like that, but just under the table a little bit.

And it's, it's connecting to your body by doing that. And speaking, connecting to your body, It's old as the hills, older, but inhale and exhale consciously that helps get you grounded back to feeling your feet on the ground. But just

Speaker 3: those simple

Nancy:  hacks in your body can just lower your blood pressure, moderate your heartbeat.

Just do it. That take care of those crazy hormones going all over the place when you're nervous And really reframing that nervousness into excitement and that'll support it

Roger:  Something so powerful about the mind body connection. Oh, yeah What's the impact on you? When your superhero power is a positive impact on others bliss Just yeah

Nancy:  Couldn't be happier Couldn't be happier when i'm helping a client Realize their strengths, practicing their self introduction, crafting it together, practicing their interview skills.

We'll practice, tell me about yourself, we'll practice the strengths, the strengths question a week. This question that the typical questions that come up on interviews and even recording, if they're bold enough and watching the recordings, seeing how they learn and then seeing them get the job. That is such a source of joy for me, endless joy and doing that with my graduate students at NYU doing that with my private clients.

It's just. It's pure joy.

Roger:  I love that. And I love, I love the word joy. I think it's really, really important that joy is, um, not only a feeling, but I think it's a source of future motivation, fuel for action. Um, it, it, it. You know, taps into our memory banks that when we're thinking about the next time we're doing something that's similarly as difficult or has the same amount of opportunity, we can tap into those memories.

And part of that, you know, if, if memories are really lessons from past experiences, that will be, you know, what we draw upon in the future. Joy, joy just plants itself into those memories. That help us achieve more. Um, at least that's the thing I'm exploring and it sounds like joy has a, um, potentially has that same kind of impact on you.

What would you say is your relationship to, between your superhero power and enjoy?

Nancy:  They know each other. Well, they're besties. You might also wonder how I get there. Do

Roger:  you want, yeah, please, please.

Nancy:  So. Especially for introverts. Extroverts go about it a little differently, but for introverts, rest up, prepare, and practice.

So rest up, we all need sleep. That's a human need. So introverts, extroverts, dogs. So we all need rest, but resting up your social energy. So if you're an introvert and you have to go to a big group meeting where you need to present, let's say, Try not to have back to back meetings that day, or try to give yourself at least a five minute walk around the block, even if it's an elevator ride, just take without an elevator pitch, just take a break, some sort of rest break, just getting that mental rest and that rest of having to be extroverting, extroverting, extroverting.

So for an introvert, we need that. So the rest of prepare. If it's anything performative. That you're working on, whether it's a job interview, a networking event, a public speaking event that you're about to deliver. So preparing and practicing, they go hand in hand. Everybody needs it somewhat to some degree, different degrees.

Why you need it more if you're an introvert is it grounds you. And speaking on the spot, now taking improv classes, Aside, which I recommend for everyone, that aside, that ability to come up with stuff on the spot is not necessarily your strong suit. So if you have a few key points up your sleeve, a few key stories up your sleeve, you'll do so much better.

And you've practiced them out loud, not just between your ears, all the difference in the world.

Roger:  What I love is this intentionality. of, you know, how to prepare for these moments. And I think introverts do this much better than extroverts. Extroverts just walk into the room. Extroverts just say the first thing that comes to their mind.

Extroverts, you know, well, you know, as you know, better than I do, well, we'll have a bigger impact, but not necessarily a better impact because they haven't thought about, you know, they're doing the external processing, whereas introverts tend to think about. What they're going to say before they say it,

Nancy:  and as you were talking, I was thinking, I was imagining a seesaw with introverts and extroverts.

So the, the introvert is doing the thinking. I'm having trouble articulating this, but it just popped into my brain that we have complimentary strings, the listening, thinking before we speak and all that. And this one might be the extrovert might be out there and charming and telling stories off the top of their head.

And the introvert will tell a story that. Thought about more and bring some data that they researched in advance. Actually, I don't see one is better than the other. I think,

Roger:  I

Nancy:  think this is just a give and take and up and down and important to just value who you are, what your super powers are, what you offer and what you can offer to your audiences.

And that to me is a vital nugget.

Roger:  In just the, the, the structure of this conversation, you are. Um, your responses to the things I'm saying are noticing the commonality, the things that we have in connection, the things that we have in common, and then talking about what's the next thing to do with that. So you're, you're following your framework beautifully in this conversation.

I want to acknowledge that.

Nancy:  Thank you.

Roger:  So what do you know to be true about your superhero power of self-promotion for introverts?

Nancy:  It's free. Anyone can benefit from it. If you describe yourself as an introvert, go for it. Think of what you got that the other parties need. Study what they need. Study who they are.

If you're an extrovert, that's fantastic. Or you describe yourself as sort of an ambivert. It's getting to know yourself. It's getting to know what others need and, and being present. listening, connecting, valuing connection. So back to it's free. , this is free. It's a free way to soar in your career. So it matters to me that you live your life and purpose and you are fulfilled in what you wanna do in your career.

Roger:  I love that idea that it's free and it's freeing. I mean, there's an element of liberation.

Speaker 4: Yes.

Roger:  Where if you're able to declutter all that, you know, the, the, the judge, the critic, the, all those other voices, if you're able to, to, to, you know, send them on their way and be able to figure out, okay, how do I show up?

How do we show up? How do we interact? How do we connect? And then how do we go on to do great things together or the, you know, how do I connect with who I am? And then how do I go forward to create great things that have meaning and value to me? That feels very liberating to do that decluttering.

Nancy:  It really is.

And I love what you said that connects to another passion of mine, which is under my whole Self-Promotion for Intro to Umbrella. I I love collaborating as an introvert, which typically means one on one, which is why I'm a career strategist slash coach. I do a lot of one on one work again, unless I'm speaking to an audience in which case it's different.

And then I treat it as each audience member is a different person. Like a mini audience, like a one on one, it's a hundred or a thousand or however many people are in front of me. It's a connection with each of them rather than this big cyclops pool, which also helps with the nerves. It's seeing them as a hundred individuals, twenty individuals, a thousand individuals, doesn't matter.

It's connecting with each person.

Roger:  Yeah. And I, I, going back to that idea that she shared earlier about, okay, I could be thinking about this public speaking opportunity where I'm going to be in front of tens, hundreds, thousands of people. And they might think I'm an idiot. They might think like all those, those critic judge ideas.

You could focus on that, or you could focus on there's something I love. There's something that, , I think has been very helpful for me. I think it would be helpful for other people. I think it would be valuable for them. And I wanna share that. Mm-Hmm. with that audience. Two very distinct energies. And one, one again, feels very liberating.

One feels very heavy. Mm-Hmm. . And, and just like a, a, a pit of misery.

Nancy:  Yes. And tying into that, you said something important that I'll build on and that is. Seeking out opportunities, seeking out relationships that support who you are, that support what you do, that care about you. Now, we all have to enter the world, which is a big mishmash, and it could be a snake pit.

At least, Find those opportunities, build those relationships where you do feel, whether it's that warmth or actually being seen, actually being heard. And this is for introverts and extroverts alike. Introverts, again, we tend to go more about it one on one or in small groups versus the extrovert who's going from party to party in the after party.

He maybe just enjoys, you know, being entertaining and out there. Okay. But we're all, it's important to find, find that heart, find that connection and find that place, which is like your, your safe place, your happy place. The P the people you want to be around, call it your tribe, whatever you want to call it.

I find that that's so important. And there's one more thought that came to mind because tying back to something we talked about earlier, and that is. to build skills and improvisation, and that will help you in all of these situations, listening to other parties, collaborating, building on what other people say.

And listen, I lived in the real world. I worked on Wall Street. I, uh, there's all kinds of characters out there. And sometimes they're negative. Sometimes they're negating. Sometimes they put you down. Sometimes they want up you all the above. Most organizations have some dysfunction and some difficult characters, at least from my experience and from my client's experience, thousands of people.

So it's learning to, to take what you have in common, to build on the positive, to add your points, to practice doing that with, to sound confident and to, to just speak up. So all of those things. or studying improvisational skills can help you.

Roger:  So what did you believe early on about self-promotion for introverts that you've come to learn to be not true?

Nancy:  It's the, you have to push, you have to sell, you have to, have to, have to, have to, you have to step out of your own shoes and pretend you're somebody you're not. You have to be a used car salesperson. You have to push things on people, things they don't want, because it's not true. It's good for you. You need to be, stand on the tallest pedestal and be the most important, biggest, bestest.

That's I guess that's the noise in my head that I've learned. I don't have to live by that. I'm going to create my own way, publish my own way and get the word about this way and see how it can help other people.

Roger:  The idea of being true to yourself, I know the worst career advice I've received is when I've been told to be something I'm not.

To do, to show up in a way that's not authentic.

Nancy:  Sure. Yeah. I don't want to be someone else. I want to be me.

Roger:  And

Nancy:  I hope you'll be you.

Roger:  It's difficult enough, right?

Nancy:  It's difficult enough. Yeah. And

Roger:  maybe the easiest thing there is to be.

Nancy:  If you let yourself, and that's what I say about public speaking, the hardest part is being yourself in front of a room.

Speaker 3: It

Nancy:  is, it's, it's being you, it's being you, not somebody else, not trying to sound like Tony Robbins or fill in the blank politician or fill in the blank car sales person. It's being you.

Roger:  So we're about to go to the lightning round, but is there anything else you would like to share about what you've learned to be true about your superhero power?

Nancy:  Whatever you do, connect to that inner joy. Connect to that life force. Life, ah, everyone's heard it's short. It's short! It's short. It doesn't go on forever. And, it's, make every day important. We've all seen people come and go. Whether it's on the national stage or home, family. It's, it's important. Life is short.

So make this moment count. Make today count. If counting means becoming the top in your field, and that's what you care about, then take the steps you need to do to get on the stages you need to get on to get ahead to do it. Whatever it is, Then do it, but find that source, that thing that fuels you, that thing that gives you joy.

And back to Roger. I love that you ask about superpowers. We all have them know what your superpower is. If you're not sure, find those people who can help you identify that the superpower thing, and connecting to your joy and having fun. Every day in some way. I think that makes life worth living and a career worth Worth being a journey to explore and enjoy for the rest of your career in life

Roger:  So Nancy, are you ready for the lightning round?

Nancy: Yes, I am. Let's do it.

Roger: Yay so fill in the blank self-promotion for introverts is?

Nancy: Bliss.

Roger: Who in your life provides self-promotion for introverts for you

Nancy: I do.

Roger: Is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture, or renew your ability to help people with your superhero power?

Nancy:  Self-reflection.

Roger:  What is one thing that gets in your way of your superhero power?

Nancy: My inner big bad wolf. It's always growling at me and telling me I can't and I shouldn't and I'm not good enough. And

Nancy:  so I have to throw that big bad wolf a bone to get out of my head for a little while so I can do my thing.

Roger:  What word or phrase describes what your superhero power feels like when it's had a positive impact?

Nancy: Bliss.

Roger: And if a listener wanted to ask you a question or follow up with you, where do you want to point them to?

Nancy:  https://NancyAncowitz.com

Roger:  Well, Nancy, this has been an absolute joy for me. I really enjoy our conversations the way we've already been able to collaborate. Um, whether it was when you invited me to come to your class and to, um, listen to student presentations and provide feedback.

And I love even in that moment, how so we, we were just sort of collaborating. Without a lot of like upfront preparation, but we were given a lot of the same advice and a lot of the same things that hopefully had a very positive impact with your students. I love the connection and the collaboration we've had with ideas here in this episode.

And it makes me really excited for what could come next. What are opportunities for us to connect and collaborate? And I love that. So thank you so much for coming here and sharing your perspectives and insights. And I so appreciate you.

Nancy:  Also, I wanted to add that our connection was thanks to another introvert, Mariana lead, who runs a coaching school, goal imagery.

And she and I were on the board of the international coaching federation in New York many, many years ago. And we've stayed in touch another person I've stayed in touch with and how did the she wrote to me and said. Nancy, I just had this wonderful podcast interview with Roger Kastner and she just put us in touch.

So then, Roger, now you're part of my network, my world, thanks to Mariana. So it's like, you keep connecting people, getting connected. It's just the networking magic, so.

Roger:  I, and I, I, I'm so appreciative that you brought that up, that, um, I, I, You reminded me of that. And it goes along with your framework around connecting and then collaborating.

And sometimes that collaborating might be putting other people in touch to create something of, of even greater value. Uh, so thank you for, for reminding me of that. Yeah. It, it, it touches me deeply that this community that's being created through this, this silly little podcast, um, is so amazing because there are guests who are reaching out to each other and beginning to collaborate through this, this early connection.

And it, it feels really powerful and I don't know where it's going to go, but I'm so grateful for being on this ride.

Nancy:  Same.

Roger:  Yeah.

Nancy:  Absolutely. So you were winding down and I was going like, and I wanted to just, so bonus tip, bonus tip is that one more thing. I was giving you body language to jump in and you could have paid attention or not.

You did pay attention, but that body language and maybe the little hand up or maybe a little, which I didn't do because you didn't need it, is a way. specifically for introverts to get heard at certain meetings at certain times. Not everyone's going to be as aware as you are, but that's my bonus tip is you can get in a word and try it.

Roger:  Well, and I love that. And for, for facilitators and for us extroverts, and I love these conversations with, you know, with, with around introversion because there's so many lessons for extroverts because what you're talking about is, Or what I'm taking from it is that if I'm facilitating a meeting and I'm all up in my head thinking about, okay, how am I being perceived or what's the next thing I want to say, or like, how do I move this forward?

If I'm not attending to what's going on in the room of creating that connection of creating that fertile ground for collaboration, then I'm going to miss those subtle cues. I'm going to miss the opportunity to connect and to get ideas from other people and to make the idea even better. Not only from a quality standpoint, but then from a, okay, what do we do with the next?

Wonderful. Nancy, thank you so much.

Nancy: Thank you.

Roger:  Okay. Thank you all for being here and being a part of this conversation. Thank you, Nancy, for sharing your insights and perspectives that will not only be beneficial for those who identify as introverts, but also for helping creating awareness and understanding amongst those extroverts here. Reflecting on this conversation, the question I'm asking myself now is where can I spend more time connecting with my needs, my goals, and my big bad wolf before I start looking to create connection with others?

If you like this episode, please forward on to a friend who you think would enjoy it. What do you know to be true is a three blue pens production. And I'm your host, Roger Kastner. We are recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people to discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people, whose land you may be on, go to https://nativelands.ca.

Okay. Be well, my friend.