It's the word "but."
The moment you hear yourself reaching for it, you've moved from understanding to defending. And Kerry-Lyn's response to that awareness is not to try harder to convince. It's something far more disarming.
She admits her defensiveness out loud. She laughs at herself. Then she brings both people back to the single question that dissolves the tension: "What are we really here in service of?"
This vulnerability pivot is not a technique to memorize. It's a self-diagnostic you can use in your next difficult conversation: at work, at home, or anywhere being right threatens to cost you the relationship.
In the original conversation, Kerry-Lyn shared the 8 principles of relational capacity and offered to come back to answer audience-provided questions.
This is that episode!
▶️ The original conversation with Kerry-Lyn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud41XOScx6Q&list=PLbWfh34FP_dUcAaCrI31z00_fLdphi6b7&index=4&t=1558s
Four audience members sent in specific questions and Kerry-Lyn’s responses went deeper than theory. The questions:
➡️ How can leaders use relational capacity to improve emotional co-regulation?
➡️ How do you address someone's dysregulation with compassion?
➡️ How do other cultures develop relational capacity that we can learn from?
➡️ Is the choice between being right and staying in relationship actually a false one?
Thank you, Mark Meadows, Wynne Leon, and April McCormick for the questions!
Her answer to the last question revealed something I didn't expect.
Kerry-Lyn identifies the early warning signal we all recognize but rarely name: the moment "but, but, but" enters your internal dialogue, you've left relational curiosity behind.
The fix isn't trying harder to convince the other person. It's admitting your own defensiveness out loud, what she calls respectful candor. That single move to vulnerability disarms the entire dynamic and invites both people back to what they're really in service of.
Throughout this conversation, from ubuntu and whakapapa, from leader vulnerability to emotional co-regulation, you'll hear her eight principles of relational capacity surface naturally; not because she's reciting a model, but because she's so deeply embedded in the work that it's become how she sees.
If you've ever walked away from a difficult conversation wondering if you could have held your ground and held the relationship, this episode was made for you.
Resources mentioned in the episode:
➡️ Kerry-Lyn’s Company: https://www.berelational.co.uk/
➡️ Kerry-Lyn’s LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kerry-lyn-stanton-downes
➡️ Kerry-Lyn’s Substack: https://berelationalnow.substack.com/
Music in this episode by Ian Kastner.
What Do You Know To Be True?" is an invitation to be inspired to become more of your possible self by discovering your superpower, unlocking your potential, and creating your impact in the world.
This podcast is for leaders, coaches, org development practitioners, and anyone who works with people who want to be inspired to discover their superpower, unlock their possibilities, and make meaningful impact in the world.
Want more info about What Do You Know To Be True?
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"What Do You Know To Be True?" is hosted by Roger Kastner, is a production of Three Blue Pens, and is recorded on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people. To discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose land you may be on, go to: https://native-land.ca/
Keywords
#difficultconversations #defensiveness #relationalcapacity #vulnerabilityleadership #emotionalintelligence #whatdoyouknowtobetrue