Coach finds purpose in teaching how to resolve conflict | Conflict Resolutionary with Kristine Scott

Transcript - Conflict Resolutionary with Kristine Scott

Kristine: Conflict is simply a single point in time where somebody has an unmet need and they see you as an agent who somehow could take care of that for them. And they might be really inarticulate about what that need is, but for some reason you're the lucky person. Um, that they think could, could make a change.

So it could be a systemic change or an interpersonal change that, that they seek. And, and your job is just to be like that social anthropologist. Like what, like what's, what's going on here? I see, I see that this is really a burn your side. Let's, let's see if we can figure this out together.

Roger: Hi, I'm Roger Kastner and welcome to the, what do you know to be true podcast. A quick request before we get going. If you enjoy this podcast, please share it with one other person. That'd be really helpful. Thank you. This conversation is with Christine Scott and it's about her superhero power of being a conflict resolutionary.

That's right, not revolutionary, but resolutionary Christine helps organizations become more equipped to address and attend to conflict. And I was expecting this conversation to be about the actions one can take to reduce the conflict and to land on a mutually beneficial resolution. And while that is part of.

Of the expected outcome of this superhero power. I wasn't expecting to learn about all the things that conflict resolutionary needs to do for themselves first, in order to be able to attend to the person or people they are in service of, this is more than just adjusting your mask before adjusting the mask of others.

This is about healing our unmet needs first so that we are better prepared. Better able to help others who are acting out on their own unmet needs. If you're ready, let's dive in.

Good morning, Kristine. Welcome to the podcast. It's good to see you. 

Kristine: Thank you, Roger. Excited to be here. 

Roger: Yeah, well, I'm, I'm really excited to have this conversation and, you know, from, from our experience working together and knowing each other, I know you to be someone who is really good at getting to the heart of any matter that we're talking about.

You're able to zero in really well. And so when we start talking about doing this episode and your experience with conflict resolution, the, the dots connected for me really quickly, because I know that It's really important if we're trying to resolve it to figure out, okay, what's, what's at the heart of the matter.

So, uh, I know you're really good at that and that's one of your superhero power. So I'm excited to, to learn more about how you think about conflict resolution and how you approach that work. Um, and I'm also really interested as you, um, talk about your, your superhero power as being a. Conflict resolutionary.

Um, and I love that play on words because I think of, you know, revolution, it's, you know, bringing upon change attacking, attacking might not be the right word, but going after like, um, changing the status quo. That there's something that needs to be changed here. So I'm really excited to learn more about that.

So please, um, take a, take a moment or two to introduce yourself and let's get into that conflict, resolutionary superhero power. 

Kristine: Thank you. So I'm going to start with just a quick story. About a stormy Seattle night, oh, probably about eight years ago when I was pulled over for going way too fast, you know, and the officer takes your ID and then disappears and just leaves you sitting there with the lights flashing in your rearview mirror.

It's kind of uncomfortable. And this particular night, it was a very long departure with my ID and I'm thinking, oh, yeah, that means that I'm getting the ticket written up. Right? Because usually when they're gone longer, that's what I've learned to expect. And this officer comes back and he says, well, um, Miss Scott, you have to be the unluckiest person I've ever met and I just said, oh, you mean, because I'm getting a speeding ticket right now.

And he says, no, because you've been a witness to a shooting and 2 overdoses, 3 arsons, and he just like, starts naming all of these things. That I was the one who called 9 1 1 as I, as I operated the shelter for homeless young people and I realized, oh, I had no idea that my name was attached to those 9 1 1 calls and he felt so sympathetic to me as this poor person who'd had all these, you know, calls.

Catastrophic events happen that he didn't give me a speeding ticket

and what's amazing about those catastrophic events is that at that point in my career as somebody who'd done social services for many years. It felt really minor and I had never heard them listed off before. And they were such a big contradiction to how I was raised. Cause I was raised in a home where, you know, my, my dad could be abusive and I had to be quiet and I had to not like call the cops.

I had to not like advocate for what needed to happen. I had to not be that first responder actively involved in. The situation I just had to be small and quiet and and so I actually realized, you know, something has changed in me that I can show up and fully engaged with things that used to scare me. 

Roger: So I'm, I'm sitting next to you in that car with the theater that the, the, the context you just said, rainy Seattle night, cop lights, you know, flying around and then that, you know, there's, there's almost two different sets of, um, of context, the.

You know, the, the, uh, uh, your childhood and everything that came with that. And then this laundry list that the, the, the police officer just, you know, read off. And that moment of, um, realization in that, you know, in that theater of flashing lights and, and rain on the windshield and darkness, the being enshrouded in darkness.

That's, that's, that's a pretty powerful picture you've just painted. 

Kristine: Yeah, sometimes we don't realize how much we've grown until we have that flashing light moment. Oh, wow. I didn't think those things counted. 

Roger: That's 

Kristine: a, 

Roger: that's a great way to start our conversation. Wow. Tell me why, why conflict resolution area and not conflict resolution.

Kristine: The very first time I had to handle a scary conflict as a social worker, I, of course, muffed it up terribly. I did everything wrong. And what I realized the more I started leaning in and doing, getting closer to the right things, I actually started watching the young people who lived on the streets and watching how they handle conflict.

As my awareness of how to manage conflict evolved, thanks to these. Really amazing young people whose lives were on the line every day. I started seeing what I termed to be a revolution, like, wow, they are interrelying and interdependent because their lives count on each other, as opposed to we're all in this for ourselves.

Right? They are actually having a better sense of what is a lethal threat and what is not a lethal threat. You know, here I am, you know, small town, white chick who lives in the suburbs working with people who have a much better street sense than I do kind of like you talked about earlier, my amygdala was going off all the time.

Like, oh, my gosh, this person is going to kill me. Right? And it was lying to me all the time. 

Speaker 3: And 

Kristine: so the more I, the more I just like, started watching and learning from these guys, the more I realized, like, what if everybody could do what you guys have learned to do just to survive. This whole thing would work so much better.

We would have like this revolution of like, uh, of social justice around how our, our status and our rank is not nearly as important as acknowledging their lives count on each other's well being and our own well being like that. These things are interconnected. 

Roger: It makes sense. The people who you know, the best teachers are those who experienced that thing.

Um, and that's kind of insightful to be able to, um, identify that those are the, the, the people to watch. Tell me a little bit more about that experience 

Kristine: when I made reference to that first time that I tried to handle a situation by myself. I was actually at a running a meal program called team feed and I had to ask this young man to leave because he was too old to be there.

And he had this really bad attitude and I knew he was going to give me a lot of flack. So I asked another, uh, young person who came to the meal program, Hey, you know, he's kind of a big burly guy. I said, could you just stand behind me so I don't look like I'm alone when I go talk to this guy? The myth that I was running at that point was I felt like as a woman, I had no, no status, no social rank.

To ask this guy to leave and that if I had a man behind me, I would somehow somehow be more authoritarian. Right? Well, it didn't go great. I approached this, this guest and sure enough, he started giving me lots of flack, didn't want to leave and he was like, in the middle of chewing me out when this arm just reached right over my shoulder and punched him in the face.

So the guy standing behind me was using street code for conflict resolution, which is very physical. I started learning, like, okay, I can't, I can't do everything these guys teach me because, you know, they are living around physical survival. And so what he understood me to say is, I want you to be my bouncer.

What I thought I was saying is I want You to look like, you know, you got my back and that I'm not alone. It was this dance around me learning around how it's street community worked and what their culture was like and what their norms were, and really throwing out a lot of the garbage that I'd been socialized around, around gender and around, um, race and around.

Class and like all of that stuff doesn't matter when your life is like actually on the line. I kept on having more and more opportunities to mess up learn and try again. It's been an amazing journey and what I've learned through that and what I teach people now is what comes up for you when you're having a conflict or a difficult interpersonal situation.

There are like three different areas that conflict becomes this barometer. That something needs to shift inside of you. First off is we have all of these unhealed wounds, right? Like I was walking around with some really big ones about, you know, being abused as a kid and other things that had happened to me just as a female identified person in a woman's body.

Like I was walking around with a lot of that stuff and it shows up. I was making myself small and you know, when there's a guy bigger than me yelling, I was just like feeling all my feels. Oh, okay. So these emotions that are coming up this, I'm going to die right now. I feel like I'm about like 6 years old.

Okay, I get to go and I get to go work on this and, and the bad news about unhealed wounds and old trauma is you'll experience, as you know, the emotion that was very real and very active all those years ago, 

Speaker 3: you, 

Kristine: you won't be able to tell the difference. Your emotions will give you away that there's something from your history that needs your attention.

Fortunately, I started. Getting a lot more therapeutic and clinical support. So I'm like, okay, this is what came up. So I became kind of like a social anthropologist, like looking at my own triggers, looking at my own reactions to situations until I got to the point. Kind of like exposure therapy that I could now have somebody much bigger than me screaming at me and it didn't bother me kind of like the, you know, when the police officer had my ID, like, I didn't like it.

But, but at that point, I, I was pretty ignored. I'd had, I'd had far worse things happen. Um, and and so I'm unusual in that way, because I've had a lot of exposure to chaos and conflict. That was my biggest growth area is like, okay. Let's, let's look at these emotions that are coming up because these emotions are a reliable barometer around what healing needs to happen, right?

If I feel terrified, terrified, there's probably something from my past, right? If, if I feel angry that this person wants my undivided attention, there might be some time in the past that I didn't get undivided attention that I just need to like take care of. There were times. That I was able to be really resourced in the face of this person's angst and energy.

And I had these really beautiful connections, really like. Moments of just empathy and clarity, kind of like your, your last guest spoke a lot about empathy and you know, those moments that I was really resourced and kind of like he said, my cup was full of self care, self love, self resource, whatever you want to call it, such that I could overflow, um, and just be there with this other person in crisis and know like, oh, I know what it feels like to be where you're at.

And it feels. miserable. Let me just give you some attention right now. So I had enough of those moments to kind of go. All right, that's what I want. That's what I'm working towards. And then I got better at saying, oh, okay. So here's some new boundaries. I have clearly people larger than me yelling at me trigger some stuff from my childhood.

I need to like, stand further back or I need to, like, say, wow, you have some big energy. Can I, you know, can I hear from you about this? Um, in 2 minutes, or can I find somebody else? Who can listen to you, you know, like I started learning how, like what to say so that my small wounded one, like, could see that.

Oh, well, actually, there is a way to handle this without like, cowering and crying in a corner. The other two hacks, one of them is pretty common. When it comes to de escalation training, like we learn about our biology, about our amygdala around the adrenaline and the cortisol that's rushing through our body and how our peripheral vision changes and how our prefrontal cortex goes offline.

You know, we, we learn all of that stuff. And so I got pretty good at noticing when my body was under duress and just giving myself a lot of forgiveness. Like, it's okay. It's okay. My, my biology right now has, like, reverted me to lizard brain. I'm going to be worthless for about 20 minutes. And I'm sure you could, like, relate.

There's probably places in your life, Roger, where, like, What you say, what you do, you look back on and you just kind of go, Oh, my gosh,

Roger: can we lose that 20 minutes of tape right there? Yeah. Can we undo the harm that just happened? Yeah. 

Kristine: I just started realizing, okay, that. That's what biological overwhelm looks like. There's really clear chemistry going on. All that adrenaline, all that cortisol has basically overridden my capacity to do any better.

And I also learned like, what are the symptoms of that creeping up in my body? And what are some of the hacks I can do? to like force it to not overtake me. 

Roger: John and Julie Gottman will talk about that in terms of relationships when you find yourself, um, uh, heated, triggered that it's time to, you know, call a time out and, and, you know, let, let those 20 minutes go by.

20, or if you can figure out how to get it down to 10, or maybe you might need 30. Um, I, I don't know what that, that magic number is necessarily, but it is, um, there is value in taking that pause. 

Kristine: Yeah, and you know, I get hired by different corporate clients to come in and train their teams. And that's one of the things I encourage them to do.

Um, for example, right now, the Seattle Space, you know, when folks get screamed at on the job, which. Unfortunately happens, you know, people are having a great experience. Oh my gosh, I get up to the top and the weather's terrible and they want to scream at a staff member like, well, I paid so much money to get up here.

The weather's really bad. I've, I've set it up with them that if that staff member has these triggers that all they have to do is call into their hand set that they, that they need that pause. And so they get a 20 minute. Break to get off the floor and go take care of themselves because, you know, their jobs count on them being able to be present at all times to all people.

And it's, it's a lot to ask. And you touched on this earlier about, you know, if we can give ourselves that grace, that forgiveness around the places that we turn into screaming Mimi's and, and irrational and reasonable jerks, right? Like if we can give that to ourselves. It's so much easier to give it to somebody else because we, we recognize, oh, you feel miserable right now.

You know, your adrenaline and cortisol is going, your heart rate is going, your breathing is changed. Your peripheral vision has changed. You're not as articulate as you would like to be, you know, no new information that goes in when you're in that fight flight freeze mode. Um, other people are trying to maybe give you some information that you need to make a good decision, but you can no longer process it because your prefrontal cortex is offline.

So it's a really terrible, awful place to be. And the more you give yourself permission to just like, oh, okay, well. I'm not functional right now. And there's no point being harsh with myself about that because this is my biology. This is how I'm wired. There are thousands and thousands of years of human evolution that is bigger than me.

It's really lovely to look at. That compassion we have for ourselves as, as the first step in that process to be able to give it to somebody else. And then we can have that empathy kind of like your last podcast was about, you know, that, that, that ability to lean in and say, I see that things are miserable for you right now.

And I totally know it's not about me. I totally know just I just happened to be the lucky person in front of you, but that whatever is going on is deeper. And when you look at the deeper level, and like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, once our physical safety is taken care of, and assuming this person standing on the observation deck there, they have access to the exit.

They don't feel trapped. They don't feel corner. They don't feel like that the person they're screaming at is going to hurt them. The other two unmet needs. that are next on the hierarchy is the need for validation and belonging. So what I train people is like tune into the places that you can validate.

Oh yeah, I'd be angry too if I just dropped all that money and came up and found that there was no view. Yeah, that's that's a really normal reaction. I'm totally I totally understand. And we like when you say stuff like that, then all of the, like, pressure just blows out of that hot air balloon, you know, and I don't know if you've ever had that experience where you've been the angsty, angry person and somebody says something that just says that they see you and that they acknowledge your feelings and all of a sudden, you don't feel isolated in that emotional state.

Oh, now you're at this, this person's my ally. If somebody's being an absolute turd as a client or customer, and you've created that lean in that empathy connection. you now have that client or customer for life. I mean, they love you. You have seen them at their worst and you were still able to like make this connection with them.

Roger: You're beginning to, to share some of the pieces of the framework that you use when you're working with people when it comes to, um, resolving conflicts. Could, um, I wonder if now's a good time to, to walk through that, that framework and the steps that you follow. 

Kristine: Well, for me, We already talked about, like, do I have the resources to have this conversation?

So setting the terms of engagement are really important. It's just like CPR first aid. If you can't be on the scene and be safe, do not enter the scene. Right? Um, so I try to always frame conflict like, wow, this sounds like something that's this really urgent and really important to you. You could have my undivided attention, but only for five minutes, or would you like to schedule a different time where I have more time?

And once I've done that, now I have an automatic out, right? Like, okay. Cause I know I can only handle this for five minutes. Wow. Roger's really worked up. I got to, I think I got about five minutes of, of, uh, juice in my battery. Or the other thing is like, do I feel physically safe? Do I have access to the door?

Do I have an exit plan? If I always have an exit plan, I can handle more, and I can choose to be there one moment at a time, because I always know like, oh, here's, here's my stage left right now. Right? So, so just like, again, self resource and, and, um, awareness around what, what I can and can't give to this other person right now.

And the other thing. That I look at is communication completions. Like you said, a lot of people are socialized that anger is an okay emotion, but it's underneath us all these other things or, or, um, those of us that are, you know, conditioned to be female and female appearing, like, we've often been socialized that, oh, we've got to, we've, we can't be outwardly angry, but we could just be like, sideways angry and do these other things, right?

Um, and, and, and so. Distill what you're hearing down to its most basic message and communicate that message in a way that creates validation or belonging. And if you can do that, create validation or belonging in your response to this person, now you're their trusted paraphraser. Right. You're like, not only getting, getting what they're putting down, but you're giving it back to them in the words that you kind of would have preferred they used in the first place.

So you're, so you're actually kind of modeling how, how, how to communicate that. And, and hopefully, You're setting boundaries around like, so if, if Roger has given me full volume, crazy upset, I probably can only give him five minutes, but if I can like to turn down the volume so that my young one doesn't come out of like, Oh my God, that's a man yelling at me.

Right. Um, then I can use phrases like. Well, I'd really like to give you more of my undivided attention, but what I noticed about myself is that I can't do that when people yell. Do you think you could match my tone for this conversation to continue? And then it's about me. It's not like making you wrong or bad or like, Oh, you, you bad person, you're yelling at me.

It's more like, this is what I know about myself. It's like when people yell at me. It kind of limits how much attention I can give them 

Roger: that feels really powerful to say, Hey, could you, could you not, could you stop yelling versus, Hey, I, I know I'm, I'm more effective in these conversations when I'm not getting yelled at.

Can you match my tone? What? I imagine that's just a wonderful deescalator. 

Kristine: Hopefully, there are times that you'll meet, you know, every now and then you'll come across what I call a grandstander who this is not about you. This is about the larger audience and, you know, I found these a lot when I was running, um, the shelter and, um, The work around then is I, I, I noticed like, Hey, let's go have this conversation over over there.

Because I don't want everybody hearing your business. I'm not going to have that conversation rather than it, right? Like, then I knew like, oh, no, this is just a stage. This is not a conflict. 

Roger: So you were, you were walking us through the framework and we talked about, um, you know, starting with yourself and making sure that you have the resources and setting the boundaries to make sure that you can participate.

And the second step, you talked about communication completions as a way of like setting up, um, you know, whether getting them to match the tone or making them aware of their, you know, how you can participate again, another way of setting boundaries, but, but also becoming their trusted paraphraser. Um, what, what's the, what's the next step after that?

Kristine: The next step after that is focusing on what their unmet need is. So Oftentimes we'll have, like, the superficial need, like, well, I really, I really need to get a view. I paid for a view. Right? Um, and then underneath that need is like, I want to feel validated. I want to feel important. I, I've paid money and that should afford me.

The certain status, right? So, if I give you that validation, like, oh, you are our valued customer and we really want our customers to have a great experience. And today the weather didn't participate in our intention, right? Then it's pretty easy to go. Okay. So we're, we're, we're going to talk to you about a refund so that you can come back on a day.

That's more clear or if you want to stay up here and just enjoy the other things. Let me tell you about the other things that are up here. Okay. Right. So, so at that point, you're giving the person a choice about what they want to have happen next. And you've just paraphrased the best that you can, what their options are in a way that's neutral, not making them wrong and just kind of putting the ball back in their court.

And I always tell people. Offer them choices, not restrictions. And sometimes I encourage people, like, if they seem super heated and they're perseverating on you as their listening post, you can always excuse yourself and say, you know, I know you've got an important choice to make. I'm going to just step away and check back in with you later.

Speaker 3: Oh, 

Kristine: okay. 

Roger: Yeah. They're giving the choice. So it's, it's theirs. Um, but also like, Hey, to step away and give you a couple moments to reflect on, you know, to make, to make the decision it's, it's still putting like, it's, this is your issue. This is, this is not about you versus me. This is your thing. You've demonstrated that you understand, uh, what they're feeling and validated it.

And now you've given them choices and now you're going to give them, you know, some time to make that decision because it's on them. It's not you versus them. 

Kristine: Yeah. And that's a really important distinction that I think you, you articulate well, Roger is that if I make your problem, my problem. Then I take away your power.

Roger: Say more about that. 

Kristine: Well, this is the third bit of awareness that for me comes out of conflict and that is how power works. So like that earlier story I mentioned about the young man who got punched by the person standing behind me. I had this confusion around. Me being, uh, powerless because of my gender and my stature.

The third big thing that conflict teaches us is that there's a difference between power and rank and status. And in our society, we afford rank and status. Like at the top of the social hierarchy, right? If you are white, if you're owning class, if you're male, if you're like, you know, the whole list, right?

All the, all the things that our scanners are constantly running without us even looking at it. And because my scanner told me that this young man had more status, more rank than I did. And in my confusion, I thought that meant that I couldn't, I couldn't like confront him without help. I was, I was wrong, basically.

And, um, one of the books I'm, I'm going to recommend is this, um, Beyond Inclusion, Beyond Empowerment. It's like a new way to look at the difference between personal power and social power. And I'm just used that you're going to use the word social rank or social hierarchy. So right now, as, um, as the podcast host, You have more status in this conversation that I do in a way that this is your, this is your room and I defer to you and the questions that you want to ask, right?

If, if you and I were in a car and I was the one driving, I'd have more status. But if we look at rank. That system is built in and already conditioned in this country to look like these things you and I have no control over it and The thing that's really powerful around this construct is I started to learn that I could use My status as a staff for the shelter to take away The voice and the choice of the people I served.

I could basically say, well, screw you. We're just going to bar you. You can no longer stay in our shelter because you're calling me bad names and I don't like it. Right. That was my prerogative. I, I had that choice. But the more I did that, the more I disallowed people from having any respect for me and any capacity to like, talk to me about what their needs were.

And so all of those unmet needs that showed up at our doorstep every night. We're getting trounced by my, my running this whole, like, I have more status than you do, right? Like this authoritarian thing, which with homeless youth, it's just a way to paint a big old target on your chest. Like, yeah, again, for me, because I'm, I'm the one who's trying to be the boss here of, of young people who left that behind for a very good reason, because it was used abusively.

So I started really looking at what are the ways that I have personal power. And according to the woman who wrote this book, who is brilliant, she said, we get our, our personal power through to two sources. One, we've already talked about wounds that we've made healed. We take the power of healing those wounds.

Like the places that I was yelled at as a child, right? Like I, I'm taking that, I'm taking all of the harshness of that and all of the voices and all of the fear processing and learning and, and noticing how much different I am now that I've done that healing journey. And what we've learned about healing trauma is it improves our capacity for compassion for others.

It improves our capacity to, to just have stress run off of us and not like stay trapped in our body. Right? We're learning all of these things that come out of. looking at these old wounds and healing them. And I don't know if you've ever had somebody walk in the room. That's just really done their work emotionally on their old stuff, but they, they have this power that's really commanding.

Um, not only are they unflappable, but there's something deep and wise about them that just people are attracted to. The other thing that she's talked about that we can draw our, our personal power from is spirituality or the belief that. We're small compared to something that's bigger, that's behind us.

So for many people of native ancestry, it's like, I feel that my ancestors behind me, they have my back. Um, or, you know, for, for folks from a Christian tradition, like, I, I know that God's got, got me and God will keep me safe. And so there's all these, all these different paradigms where we look at, like, okay, this thing that's really hard right now.

Is, is actually much smaller than this, this larger construct that, that's keeping, keeping me safe and keeping me sane. 

Roger: When you were able to successfully walk them through these steps and get them to the resolution, what's the, what's the impact that you see on them that this has had and what's the impact on you?

Kristine: It's the ones that's been working with me longer. They're just like ready for really advanced stuff. And, and they see conflict kind of like ideas like, wow, here's another opportunity. This is great. Whereas the folks that are still newer, they're like, Oh, no, no, no. These people are terrible. Oh my God.

You're right. Like. They're still blaming and maiming the, um, the upset customers as the problem. And so we just need to kind of get them further through their journey. And so that they can start sharing my analysis around actually conflict is somebody really trusting you with an unmet need that, that they think that you could be an agent of, of help.

Right? This is your public service time right now. If you're ready for it, 

Roger: I love that conflict is someone trusting you with their unmet need. That's a very interesting way of thinking about that. Cause trust doesn't seem like, um, a word I would naturally put into that, uh, sentence, but I can, I can see it now.

Kristine: A lot of us have feelings of conflict as well. I got made invisible. I got made wrong, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so we have these unresolved conflicts that we know. Determine that that's what conflict actually is and it's not conflict is simply a single point in time where somebody has an unmet need and they see you as an agent who somehow could take care of that for them and they might be really inarticulate about what that need is but for some reason you're the lucky person um that they think could could make a change so it could be a systemic change or an interpersonal change that that they seek.

And, and your job is just to be like that social anthropologist, like, what, like, what's, what's going on here? I see. I see. This is really a burn your side. Let's, let's see if we can figure this out together. 

Roger: I'm kind of blown away by the idea of someone coming to me with an issue. Someone coming to me with, yeah.

With a conflict, being able to tell myself, Oh, you know, like what a gift this person's entrusting me, 

Speaker 3: uh, 

Roger: with their unmet need. And, you know, it, it, again, it probably doesn't feel like trust, but if I could think about that, that's, that's, that, that would be powerful. And then seeing it's, you know, conflict that seems, you know, bared teeth and bare knuckle sort of like, you know, in your face, but it's that unmet need part.

You, you've talked about the, um, you haven't used the word inner child, but you, the young one in me. 

Speaker 3: Mm hmm. 

Roger: And thinking about unmet need, you, you, you're able to visualize the, the young one in that person who's coming at you with, um, you know, a lot, grand gestures and, and, you know, big eyes and loud voice and it's, oh, it's, there's this little person in you that, that is feeling something really big at the moment.

That's, that's, um, That's kind of lovely. And I, I love the idea of taking on the sense of, I don't know, of, of stewardship or, uh, what the right word is here, but you wanting to take on a sense of compassion of. 

Kristine: Yeah. I like to use the word Sherpa because you're, it's their journey, right? They're, they're the ones that are seeking resolution, but hopefully you're walking alongside of them because you have the flashlight.

Roger: What do you know to be true about being a conflict resolutionary? 

Kristine: If you start looking at conflict as it shows up in your life as a way to increase your own self awareness, you're going to go far. It's just an amazing insight. Into every place that either you've been hurt every place that you've bought into some really screwy paradigms around how power works are every place that you might not be listening to your body.

Well, like, all of those 3 things are gonna happen just in the rawness and the tension of this situation. And the beautiful thing about conflict is because we do get raw and we, we do get like fully invested in its outcome. That's also where the greatest opportunity is, because we're not, we're, we're, we're less likely just to play nice and say one thing and do another thing, because it does feel really life or death.

Roger: Is there something that you might've believed about conflict resolution early on? That you've come to learn not to be true, 

Kristine: changing my definition of power, I think has been the most critical, uh, critical thing for me, just like constantly unwrapping and unfurling every layer of, of this crazy hierarchy that, that we've all inherited.

The bad news about our, our implicit biases is. We don't think that they're running the show because they're always in the background. But when we get stressed, that's actually how we make decisions. When we believe that our survival is questioned or, or our social rank is questioned. Um, that's when, that's, that's when things get ugly.

And so we're seeing this play out a lot in, um, what's going on right now when people are talking The, the, the war in, in Israel, we see this playing out within our law enforcement communities, we're seeing like all of these places where implicit bias, um, that was just politely under wraps is now front and center, right.

In our lives, uh, and on our front pages. Um, and I just really encourage people like. Don't, don't let that stuff fool you, like, look a little bit deeper around the role that race plays, the role that, um, class plays, you know, in, in these conflicts. And the other little, um, hint that I have for your listeners is when they do feel, um, Like if I'd like freeze kind of stress reaction in their body, even if it only lasts for five minutes, give yourself the gift that within the next 24 hours, you're going to do something cardiovascular, get your heart rate elevated for at least 10 minutes, because you want that adrenaline and that cortisol to actually get worked out of your body and not get stored as this unresolved, um, problem.

Roger: So are you ready for the lightning round? Ready? Okay. Fill in the blank. Conflict resolutionary is 

Kristine: the practice of looking at conflict as an interpersonal opportunity for connection. 

Roger: And and growth, right? I'm adding that in there. I'm not supposed to, but everything I've heard you say is like, 

Kristine: wow, personal growth.

Yeah. 

Roger: What an opportunity for growth. Okay. So maybe we'll answer these together. No, I'm sorry. That's bad. 

Kristine: Who 

Roger: in your life provides conflict resolutionary for you? 

Kristine: Well, as far as challenges go, my 19 year old daughter regularly shows me what I have not yet worked on.

I have some, some people that I follow and I listen to, um, my, my favorite right now is Lama Rod Owens. Um, he's basically this, uh, queer Buddhist Lama who takes social change and the anger and the woundedness that comes from oppression and talks about using it for, for good. Um, and so he's basically doing what I'm doing, but on a very spiritual level and he has a lot more followers than I do.

Roger: Hey, we're all helping out where we can. 

Kristine: That's right. That's right. 

Roger: Well, and that was the next lightning round question. Is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture or renew your ability to help others with conflict resolution? 

Kristine: Um, well, I have a daily routine that is very grounding for me.

I. I get up in the morning, I make a pot of tea while the water is brewing. I go outside with my banana and I take my ducks up to the green space. I've got some green space behind my house where we watch the sunrise over over the mountains and they eat their banana slices.

Roger: Um, now you already mentioned a book, but I wonder, is there another book or movie that you recently consumed and recommend that has conflict resolution as a theme? 

Kristine: Um, my favorite right now is good morning monster. Just came out. Um, a psychiatrist basically wrote about five patients of hers who took really traumatic childhoods.

And overcame them with, of course, years of support and therapy, but, um, she details their journeys in a way that just is so encouraging for, for myself as a trauma survivor, but, but also in the work I do, like, just like remembering, like, hey, Again, going for that personal awareness and that growth, um, is such a beautiful thing and really enriches people's lives.

Roger: What is one thing that gets in your way of being a conflict resolutionary? 

Kristine: I think the most constant theme when that comes up are just the places that I failed to take care of myself. Um, I, I have this thing called circling the pump. You know, like I know what practices work for me. I know what helps me stay centered, calm and well resourced, but sometimes I just don't, sometimes I just binge watch and, and don't do my morning journaling and, you know, like those are the times.

Yep. 

Roger: Again, sounds human. So what word or phrase describes what conflict resolutionary feels like when it's had a positive impact?

Kristine: Yeah. I think about those times that I had this really powerful connection with somebody. The last one actually happened years later after the conflict, which was kind of funny. There was this one young guy named Obadiah. Every time he came into teen feed, he and I would have, we would have it on. Well, I saw him, um, on the app a few years ago.

And, you know, of course we're much older now and he's got a partner and he's got a kid and, and we just had this conversation around like, Now we're finally able to see each other and it was so beautiful. And so as I described that sensation of having loving eyes and attention for another, without any pretense, without any, um, agenda, um, I think that's what it looks like for me.

Roger: Again, um, borrowing from the, uh, the episode with, with Enrique, yeah, sounds simple, not easy. 

Kristine: Not easy. 

Roger: If a listener wanted to ask you a question or follow up with you. Where would you want to point them to? 

Kristine: Probably find me through my website, which is seattleconflictresolution. com. 

Roger: Well, Christine, this has been a wonderful conversation.

I have learned a whole new perspective, uh, honestly on how to think about conflict. Resolution and to become a conflict resolutionary, this idea how it conflict itself, my relationship with any conflict could be an opportunity for me to create that that sense of connection and my own personal growth, something I had not thought about this idea that someone who is bringing conflict to you gives you this opportunity to, you know, they are entrusting you with their unmet needs.

Never thought about. So this has been a really eye opening conversation for me to think about how to go about conflicts that are going to pop up and the opportunity to to learn. Um, and to, to, to get to know myself better, to actually become a, um, to heal some of the issues that I'm working with so I can, um, do this for other people sounds like, uh, an amazing, uh, an amazing thing to take on.

And so I am so grateful that you have brought this information and shared with us today, uh, what, you know, to be true about being a conflict resolutionary. 

Kristine: Thank you. 

Roger: Okay. A 

Kristine: lot of fun. 

Roger: Okay. Take care.

I feel like we just took a masterclass on conflict resolution and not the typical one that's focused on steps or techniques for resolving conflict, but instead one that's focused on the prerequisite work required to do before we even get to those steps. This was really more focused on how we need to attend to our own unmet needs, our own stories and our own capacities.

Before we can be in service of someone else, when conflict presents itself and reflecting on this conversation leads me to a couple of questions. I have for myself. What are the unmet needs that my young one still has and once addressed? Well, enable me to live more fully into my ability to be in service of others.

And second, are there any boundaries or limits that I need to put in place when I am using my superhero power so that I could be more present engaged? And focused on those who I'm attempting to serve. Okay. If you like this episode, please do me a favor and share the episode with one other person. Thank you for doing that.

What do you know to be true is a three blue pens production. I'm your host, Roger Kastner. We are recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people to discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose lands you are on. Please go to native hyphen lands. ca. Okay. Be well, my friends