Creating Space for Well-being with Rebecca Hawkins

[00:00:00] Because I really do believe that regenerative, how am I actually adding to and improving the lives of the people who work for me and making them better humans more well, more empowered, more enlightened, stronger and better in their career and their skill development

[00:00:16] than when they started working for me. What if every company had that approach? That's my mission to start regenerative workplaces. I have a big audacious goal or dream of some day making out a certification company to get that they're certified regenerative from many for humans.

[00:00:33] Hey there, Roger here, a quick request. If you enjoy this episode, please tell one other person that would be super helpful. Okay, on with the episode. Hi I'm Roger Casner and welcome to The What Do You Know

[00:00:48] To Be True Podcasts. In these conversations, I talk with ordinary people about their extraordinary their superhero power and the meaningful impact it has on others. I'm interested in what inspired our guests to develop their talent, how they think about their superhero power and the impact

[00:01:08] that has on others. The intention is to learn more about their experience with their superhero power and in doing so, maybe we can learn something about the special talent in each of us that

[00:01:18] makes us unique. This conversation is with Rebecca Hawkins and her superhero power of creating and holding space for others. This episode is deep and rich. Rebecca talks about the importance of human connection and why the lack of connection, which is at epidemic levels, is a critical need

[00:01:37] now more than ever. Rebecca shares the steps she takes with leaders and organizations to help them through psychological safety, finding purpose in the work, and creating authentic connections to increase well-being, achieve business results, and to become a talent magnet. And she is able

[00:01:56] to do this through creating and holding space for others. Rebecca also shares why this work is deeply personal to her and for her, her authenticity and vulnerability are evident in the conversation

[00:02:09] and she demonstrates why this is a true superhero power for her. Like I said, it's deep and rich conversation. If you're ready, let's dig in. Hi Rebecca, it's nice to see you again. Thank you for joining.

[00:02:28] Roger, it's an honor to be here. Thanks so much for inviting me. My pleasure. So we just recently met however when we did there was an obvious spark of connection when we shared the work we do and the purpose

[00:02:42] behind it. There's a shared passion for helping people realize their full potential. And when you talk about the work that you do and how you hold people, you work with and such

[00:02:57] high regard. It's clear that you're motivated by a bigger purpose. I like to think the same about myself. So could you tell us a little bit about Rebecca Hawkins and what should you professionally?

[00:03:09] Sure. Well, I'm in a transition right now of starting my own consulting business, which is called regenerative workplaces. And that was born just like you said from a career of elevating employee experience in the corporate environment. I just left a Fortune 100 company where

[00:03:30] I worked for 13 years and during my time at that company, the experience of the employee was always central to everything that I did. I'd several different roles, everything from frontline operations and people leadership to internal communications and executive support to staff and

[00:03:47] strategy for call center sales and to HR. I moved around quite a bit and always keeping the employee at the heart of everything that I did. So when I had an opportunity to step out of my own,

[00:04:02] I really wanted to step into the space of helping other companies do the same thing. How do you create environments where people thrive? I think your purpose, my purpose very similar of not only helping organizations achieve their business results but also help create workplaces where people can

[00:04:22] thrive and that those two things do not have to be in competition. They could actually be done together. It sounds like the experience you had at your last company was a source of inspiration

[00:04:32] but was there something another event or an individual who inspired you to help create and hold space for others? The best way to say it is that life has helped create this passion for holding space

[00:04:45] for others and creating space for others. My life's been messy. Can you relate? In fact, there's a Facebook meme that really spoke to me about seven years ago. It just said,

[00:04:58] my life can be summed up in one sentence. It didn't turn out the way it was supposed to. And I remember when I first actually saw that meme, I was like, oh my gosh, you can say that again.

[00:05:12] And yet there was a component of the meme that ended and said, and that's okay. And in the moment at that time, I didn't feel like it was okay. I was actually harboring still a good level of resentment

[00:05:26] and regret about some of the things in my life that didn't turn out the way they were supposed to. Until I had a really, really good therapist asked me a question once and she said, well,

[00:05:36] who's script or are you comparing your life to? And then I had to really sit and think about that because if I was being honest, I think my script was some combination of fairy tales and how

[00:05:47] to live or after with what you see on social media of everybody's perfect life. And that was a wake up call for me and it started a transformation where I grew into a space of accepting and

[00:05:58] allowing and embracing that my life actually is exactly how it's supposed to be. And all the messy two divorces, some miscarriage, years of infertility, adoption that turned into really a very difficult parenting journey for me. Those things were not maybe written to the script of the fairy tale,

[00:06:19] but they made me who I am today. And they made me a person of deep compassion for other people's supposed to, pressure and just the pressure there is in this world to live up to some mythical

[00:06:33] expectation and to live up to expectations in general. So we'll get into here. I know in a little bit some of the nitty gritty of what it means for me to create a workplace where employees thrive.

[00:06:45] I'm breaking the mold a little bit because there is a whole science and skill set around organizational effectiveness, organizational development. Those are things that I know you practice. And there's incredible power in those things creating efficiencies and building better

[00:07:01] organizations from a structural perspective. But I'm really looking at creating human-centered workplaces that are made for humans and humans are messy. So they're not going to fit into your three part system for organizational development. So I'm kind of a unique consultant in that way

[00:07:21] that I recognize when I go into an organization, I'm building my subject matter expertise in humans. What makes humans tick? What makes humans thrive? What makes humans shut down and pull away?

[00:07:37] And your next bird in your organization, your next bird in your people, your next bird in yourself. And together we will understand where there are pain points in your organization that we can fix

[00:07:49] to make it more human-centered. Thank you for sharing what I guess we could call the messiness of your life and your process to come in okay. The question around what inspired you was a little

[00:08:04] bit of that combination of your therapist, of that social media meme. And also the work that you did. There's something about your superhero power of creating and holding space for others. You had to do that for yourself to be able to get to where you're at.

[00:08:22] Yeah, 100%. In fact, it's interesting that your podcast kind of likes to focus on people superpowers. And it's very clear when I look at my life this was not always my superpower. I come from a long history of perfectionism and people pleasing. And a lot of trauma

[00:08:44] and trying constantly to find my worth and my value through external sources and looking around me to measure my worth. And it was only when I came sort of to the end of that. And like I said,

[00:08:58] this meme and my own struggles and the place in my life when I wasn't really happy with how my life had turned out. I had to look at all that and hold space for myself and look inward

[00:09:12] to find my own inherent worth and my own inherent value that I began to develop this superpower for others. Yes, so it was absolutely a process of both. Along my journey, my career journey, I became a certified yoga instructor in 2019 after practicing yoga for 11 years and finding

[00:09:31] tremendous benefits for myself on the mat. And when I started out in yoga, one of my mission, I say when my yoga practice is to create sacred space for people to embrace their story and find rest. Because the word yoga means yoke, in Sanskrit essentially it means unity.

[00:09:52] And the whole process of yoga is about integrating my body spirit and it's a practice. It's just a practice. It's one of many but it's really reflective of my mission. And I try to often even

[00:10:05] any yoga classroom encourage people to take yoga off the mat. Because it's really more about the practice of integration, a finding true self, whole self that you can do every day in every moment

[00:10:19] of every day that I've learned to do that has helped me to survive my own trauma and I want to share that with the world. And particularly now in this past season, I want to share it with workplaces.

[00:10:29] And it's not about yoga and the workplace but it's about creating space. I wouldn't roll out any methodology as far as helping people in the workplace finding unity, finding themselves, recognizing the creativity, resourcefulness and wholeness that everyone has

[00:10:49] inherent in them. It's just helping them find that. And I'm going to put the process for of doing that. So that's yeah. And don't get me wrong. I'm all about doing yoga in the workplace.

[00:11:00] I think it's a great benefit. The platform I preach from those says, don't have a toxic where culture that burns your people out and then tack on yoga as your solution. That's my

[00:11:13] form that I let's talk about the culture that you have. You're sharing some kind words about the podcasts and the search for better understanding of superhero powers. And you were sharing with me

[00:11:27] before we turned on the record button here. A little bit about the work that you're familiar with and helping people find their superhero power. Could you share a little bit more about that?

[00:11:39] Yeah, there is so much to this. Another thing that I have become passionate about over the last decade is the Gallup Strength Finders model. And I don't know how many people out there familiar

[00:11:51] with the Gallup model of finding your strengths. But over many, many years, decades, Gallup has really perfected the science of helping people understand their superpowers through their talents. The Gallup assessment is different from other assessments that tend to look at other dimensions,

[00:12:12] personality, conflict mode, how you solve problems perhaps. Gallup really looks at the DNA of how you're wired and how you're made. So they have a uncovered over their research 33 different what they call talent themes, things that can be natural talents, and do the assessment,

[00:12:32] identify your top five. And they distinguish between talents and strengths it's very important. Because a talent is something that you are naturally good at. But it only becomes a strength when you use it. What's unique about the study is there are literally one in a 33 million chance

[00:12:52] that you and another person have the same top five. The assessment delivers a very unique blueprint of who you are. So knowing who we really are and how we're really wired and what our natural

[00:13:03] talents are, and then aligning where we put our effort into those talents is incredibly empowering, incredibly fulfilling. And it is what helps us to feel known and seen a value. I think the distinction you're calling out between the talent, the something you're good at

[00:13:21] versus the things that you're passionate about. That's when you become a strength. And I know early in my career, I think I was consuming all things that Marcus Buckingham would pull out who also comes out of that same Gallup school of thought where he will talk about,

[00:13:38] you know, there's things that we're good at but if they don't drive, if we're not passionate about it, we will, you know, that's a quick road to burnout. And the things that we're good at,

[00:13:51] other people see and we'll ask us to keep doing those things. Whereas the things we're passionate about, no one knows except for us and those we tell. So I think there is something about not only figuring out those things that were actually good at and passionate about

[00:14:08] and then taking that other, that extra step about letting people know. And being able to say no or figure out how to delegate those things that we're good at but they actually are attacked

[00:14:22] to us. They weigh us down rather than feet or passion. Yeah, for sure. And you know the Japanese have a word for that called Iki-gai. I'm a part of Iki-gai. There's a diagram that shows four

[00:14:36] dimensions. So what you are good at, your skills, what you're passionate about, what you love, what you can make money at, right? Because you have to monetize sometimes these things and the fourth dimension is what does the world need? And so when you can find that intersection,

[00:14:51] you really find your Iki-gai, which is your, your calling. It's why you are here on the earth and it is that perfect intersection of strength, passion and vocation and giving back to the world.

[00:15:03] I love that and I'm thinking about the position that people might find themselves in where something's a good at, something they love, something that they get paid for, but it doesn't do the world good or something the world doesn't need. And I think I think

[00:15:24] inherently our sense of purpose is tied to or validated when it's in service of other people. I think when we have a purpose that's only self-driven, I think that's where people might find themselves down the road of that vocation or that career where it feels maybe a little

[00:15:47] hollow and they have that existential crisis and then career switch. Do you speak about to be true? Well yeah, and I would say there's a certainly a level of privilege and when we're having these

[00:15:59] conversation, then I know people struggle with this idea of purpose and calling and why I'm here because not everybody has luxury to find that sweet spot. Some people really literally just

[00:16:10] need to work to survive and to take care of themselves and their family and it's really just about opening up the aperture to recognize the potential for more and then that's why it's a bit important to create space for people to explore these other options. And as a

[00:16:26] common humanity, we're all in this together, let's hold that space and how these conversations with each other with one another and in the workplace. And you really bring up an important point about this distinction between self-focused and other focused and I apply that to the workplace.

[00:16:46] When I also talk about the work that I do, I like to say that I am part of a title wave. That's happening. So there's a divergence happening right now across the corporate landscape where the primary model for corporate structure, corporate purpose, how companies are run has been

[00:17:06] it's all about the bottom line. That still is necessary. Obviously we're not making money as companies we're going to go out of business. But for the last hundred years that model has driven a mindset where humans truly are just seen as a resource, literally a human resource and

[00:17:22] they're treated as a transaction. We pay you, we give you benefits and salary and you work for us so that we can make money and that's the deal. It's based on mid-20s century corporate mindsets like

[00:17:32] Jack Wilde, to battle about efficiency and cutting the bottom and get rid of losers or whatever. It's not based on how humans actually function and it's not really based on making the world a better place. And that is shifting. The landscape is shifting. More and more companies

[00:17:47] are rising up to see a greater purpose, but they exist for more than just the bottom line. They exist to make the world a better place and that companies do that by producing great products

[00:18:00] at the world needs and doing that sustainably so that the world can thrive as a world as a planet and then also by investing in their humans. Because when the humans at the company thrive,

[00:18:15] the company then also will thrive and then the world will thrive. I mean the COVID pandemic launched us into a mental health crisis like Nambeve ever seen and I would argue we were already there on the brink but the COVID pandemic really pushed that accelerated that elevated burnout,

[00:18:34] elevated stress and diminishment of health diminished while being globally. And humans can't operate in this outdated centuries old mindset anymore. We need better. We need more to thrive. Well-being in the workplace is not just a benefit that we can afford to add on without addressing

[00:18:58] the environment first that people are coming into work every day. So think about your company and your well-being as a strategy to address this chronic state, your all-year employees are coming to work every day with this heaviness already in the men on them. They're coming to work already

[00:19:15] afraid already stressed and if companies are not intentional about creating a new environment from employees to come to work we're going to lose their employees when they lose the companies. So I'm helping, I'm certainly not the only voice, there's a lot of companies doing great work

[00:19:30] out there and a lot of other thought leaders in this space but I'm just joining that tidal wave putting all of my energy into helping companies build a triple bottom line is sort of the word

[00:19:40] that I see being used more and more of profit, people, and planet. So how do we help companies do all three by helping people do all three? You know you queueed up, though for me, how I came

[00:19:52] up with the name regenerative for my business because what you described are the three different approaches to resource management. And these terms have been used also for decades when referring to how we navigate, how we manage our water sources, how we manage our forests, how we manage

[00:20:10] our fields and our agriculture so that initial models depleted. So we just will suck every little bit out of this forest and clear-cut this forest until there's no trace left and then go onto the

[00:20:22] next forest. What has we evolved to and currently is really the buzz word is sustainable sustainability. Right? How do we let this field rust so that next season it can produce a better crop instead

[00:20:34] of constantly farming the same field with the same crop and depleting the minerals will try to sustain this to the field will endure in last. But the most powerful model of resource management,

[00:20:46] though, is regenerative. So it's like how do I actually improve the soil and the forest in the waterways and make them better off than they were when we started using them? How do I add to this environment?

[00:20:59] And so those approaches to resource management have been around for a while only recently have companies started talking about those as an approach to how we manage humans as a resource. So I first heard these terms from the CEO of Patagonia who's of course

[00:21:16] world-known for their incredible sustainable practices, as a organization and their very focus mission on making a better planet but they also really invest in their humans and have a great culture.

[00:21:28] And when I first heard it, I just got lit up inside because I really do believe that regenerative how am I actually adding to and improving the lives of the people who work for me

[00:21:38] and making them better humans more well, more empowered, more enlightened, stronger and better in their career and their skill development than when they started working for me. What if every company had that approach? That's my mission to start regenerative workplaces. I have a big audacious

[00:21:56] goal or dream of some day making out a certification companies can get that they're certified regenerative from many for humans. Thank you for sharing that because I love the idea that there's actually

[00:22:06] three steps in that model not just to. Anytime you think there's only an A and a B, there's always a C, there might be an E. So thank you for sharing that because I love this idea that there's a

[00:22:19] difference between depletion and sustainability and sustainability to the the example you gave of the crops. That's just prolonging the depletion at least it feels like. Whereas thinking about it in a regenerative and a giving mindset I think we'll be the direction we need to be in.

[00:22:41] When you are thinking about creating and holding space for others, is there a framework or a process that you follow? Yeah there's a couple of different ways to answer that question because

[00:22:54] there's this power that I've developed that I'm still not perfect at because I'm human and we're all human right but there's this power and creating space for a individual someone's sitting right in

[00:23:06] front of you in this moment in time. I have simply as a coach, as a certified coach, leaned into empathy, empathetic listening and curiosity are the two most powerful ways to hold space for people right. So simply listening and asking questions. Really leaning into the truth that

[00:23:26] every person is an expert in themselves and their story and their experience and they simply want to be seen and heard and valued. So can we do more empathetic listening and asking questions?

[00:23:37] And that's the skill of a coach and anybody can do that, anybody can hold that space and create that space. So I kind of have leaned into, I say that my superpowers creating safe space. Part of the

[00:23:49] safe space and part of the way I do that is simply my own disarming vulnerability and authenticity. Not trying to perform and live up to other expectations myself being humble, self-aware, being emotionally intelligent, acknowledging my own frailty and failures. There's even a whole other

[00:24:08] study from Harvard, a researcher by Dr. Jeff Polzer, which is called the Vulnerability Loop, where there was studied in groups of people. It's a group dynamic that when one person signals their vulnerability, their weakness, their struggle, their they need help. Even just asking for help

[00:24:25] is like the first way to do this. It actually automatically sends this signal to everybody in the room that it's safe to be vulnerable. Which really powerful, though, in the second person steps in and

[00:24:38] does the same thing. Our acknowledges gosh I'm really struggling to I could also use some help. And so bringing your own vulnerability, that's congruent, bringing your own authentic self-interim also helps to create that safety for others. But that's just sort of one-on-one or a group dynamics.

[00:24:53] I have a whole different approach when I'm looking at an organization or a company because now we're talking about systems and processes and policies and procedures. And so I have a little different

[00:25:04] approach, and that's an acronym that I literally have called space creating space for humans at work. So the space acronym really is just SP and C, and then you just add the mouse. And again, these three

[00:25:18] things are all basic human needs. But when we get them in the workplace, workplace becomes a place we thrive. The S stands for safety. So safety is a basic human need because we are wired to be risk-averse. We're hard-wired to be on constant alert for danger and threat.

[00:25:42] So I like to say that the brain is an amazing organ that does millions of complex things every single day. But at its core, the brain has one job which is to keep us alive.

[00:25:54] Everything it does revolves around keeping this body alive. And it does a lot of those things outside of our control. It digests our food for us. It pumps our heart for us. And then God I don't have

[00:26:07] to remember those things are put on my list. And it just doesn't for me. Except for breathing. Sometimes we need to remind ourselves to try. Yes. Well, breathing is a fascinating one because it's both automatic and controlled. So I can talk about breath for an entire podcast.

[00:26:23] But as a yoga instructor, but one of the things our brain does for us automatically without us ever having to think about it or and what we can't control it is to keep us away from danger.

[00:26:38] It's a little part of our brain called the amygdala. People talk about this a lot in different I've served lots of podcasts and TED talks about this. So it's not new or revolutionary.

[00:26:48] But it's a part of our brain whose only job is to keep us safe. It's to scan the environment and find danger when it sees danger, emit all these stress hormones, adrenaline and cortisol

[00:27:00] into our body to raise our heart rate to tense our muscles so we can be ready to run to get us breathing more shallow in a conserve oxygen. And unfortunately, it's really just based off of pattern recognition. So it's really helpful when there's actual

[00:27:16] danger coming our way back in the you know, the dinosaur gaze when there is a mountain lion or say we're too tired or about to attack or in modern days we're about to get by a car.

[00:27:26] Magdalene's very very helpful gets us out of the way quickly. Not so helpful when we're in a room and we have a question we want to ask and we think it's a stupid question all said and we feel

[00:27:36] our heart weak. Our mouth gets dry, our face gets fleshed we get butterflies in our stomach we feel like we want to run and leave the room because we have a question we want to ask.

[00:27:48] So what is so scary about asking questions that's the research that I really got excited about and that goes down a whole rabbit trail around social risk and relational risk and so we're very actually afraid of rejection punishment because the brain can actually

[00:28:06] recognize the difference between physical pain and emotional pain. So unfortunately the brain is wired to avoid threats when it threats senses threat or release of stress home homeones and we can't just override this response it's completely automatic and part of what happens

[00:28:22] when we're in that threat state is the logical thinking part of the brain literally shuts down we can't make a good decisions. We're not thinking clearly we're not creative or innovative and unfortunately those hormones that are shot into our body the adrenaline the cortisol

[00:28:38] we're designed to be burned off and metabolized by running away from the saber tooth tiger but we don't burn them off or metabolize them because we're just sitting in a meeting room so they store up and they store up and they cause heart disease and they cause diabetes

[00:28:54] and they cause cardiovascular illness and this this cause stress. So companies need to start making a deliberate focus on what are the things in the workplace they're putting people into a threat state that are shutting down their creativity and their productivity at increasing their stress

[00:29:12] and so I help companies look at those types of things that's one step. And so that's the s in space what's the p tom rath actually wrote a book recently called life-screate question and in that book

[00:29:25] he says there's a growing body of evidence to suggest that the single greatest driver of both achievement and well-being is understanding how your daily efforts enhance the lives of others. So we were talking about what does the world need because it's actually a

[00:29:43] critical component of our well-being we are a pro social species contributing to something greater than ourselves actually enhances our well-being it releases some of those good hormones in our bodies it's healing to give back to others. So when we are tied to purpose to something greater than

[00:30:02] ourselves we actually experience greater well-being and greater performance and productivity. So I invite companies to ensure that they have clearly articulated values and mission and that those values and that mission is actually embedded in the work that people do so they can see how their work

[00:30:20] contributes to the mission of the organization. The C stands for connection which is another basic human need and you can see how these are all really woven in together so another thing

[00:30:32] we are wired for as humans is to be seen known and valued. Here's another great quote I found it actually on Facebook originally this is a by an author named Jeff Brown he says if there's any need

[00:30:45] that is perpetually unmet it is the need to feel seen. To feel seen in our humanity, our vulnerability, our beautiful imperfection when we are held safe in that a key turns on our hearts

[00:31:01] freeness from isolation and transforming our inner world so if you like to say that if there's anything we could offer each other it's the gift of sight and yet companies again are not necessarily

[00:31:12] built to foster human connection. We're built to get the job done to get the work done to deliver on the bottom line and we skip over all of these powerful and important moments for deep human

[00:31:24] connection so I invite companies to really look at their processes policies procedures how they run their meetings how they do one-on-ones with employees and coach them so employees feel seen and known

[00:31:39] for who they really are so you can pause and build those in foster those moments of human connection. So safety purpose and connection are the three pillars of regenerative workplaces. Well you mentioned Tom Rath and I know Tom Rath also comes from the Gallup school and this is

[00:31:55] several several books on finding your strengths and strange finders really interesting that someone who has spent their whole career studying strengths finds that the number one thing that people need is the disease to be seen. It's a precursor or an input to having people be able to

[00:32:14] really bring their strengths to work or to their community to their family and have a really meaningful impact in doing that. You were just talking about safety and you and I had a conversation

[00:32:28] where both big fans of Brune Brown and Brunei recently on one of our podcast was talking about the difference between brave spaces and safe spaces and how she does not feel comfortable using

[00:32:44] the term safe space anymore. I think you have a little bit of a different take on it. I'm really interested in hearing your thoughts on this so how would you address that idea of a safe space

[00:32:56] versus a brave space? I love that and I loved that podcast. It was transformative for me too in my work because what had happened for me in my last job was we were trying to roll out some

[00:33:06] culture initiatives around healthy challenge, for example, and progress over perfection and things that the company needed because they would get stuck in collaborative, over collaboration, hyper collaboration, hyper decision making, fear of failure. All these things and I was like

[00:33:23] wait a minute there's a common thread here of psychological safety is missing so I became obsessed with Amy Edminson. I not only read but listened to her book and digested it

[00:33:35] and I'm like this is it, this is secret bullet so huge shout out to Amy Edminson in her book the fearless organization. I highly recommend that in her work and that launched me into this whole space

[00:33:46] of trying to encapsulate those principles of psychological safety in my workplace and teaching leaders how to she has a leader tool kit in that book with three key behaviors that leaders can do to create a more psychologically safe space and psychological safety is a buzzword too. Google

[00:34:02] did a whole study on it, project Aristotle found that that was the leading indicator of high performing team's at Google as well so it's not a new term but yeah there's a lot of I would say

[00:34:13] confusion even mythology around this word safety and I agree with Bernay and in fact as I was teaching psychological safety I would have people both leaders and individual contributors kind of come back

[00:34:26] and say you know well I'm doing everything I can as a leader to create safety and people are still afraid and so I would lean into that a little bit and I realized well yeah that's because our brain

[00:34:37] hasn't amigdala and so it's never going to feel completely safe we are a risk of a burst species those feelings of fear will always come up so I started to look more into some

[00:34:51] of the science around brain brain and I think companies need to teach both so we also we absolutely need to destigmatize and remove stressors and threat in the workplace and we need to help people

[00:35:04] recognize fear for what it is and have tools to overcome their fear and be brave so I like to reference Liz Gilbert's book Big Magic for this piece because she talks about putting fear in the back

[00:35:18] seat she acknowledges and that book that fear is never going to go away we can't actually kick it to the curb it's always going to be on the journey of life with us we just don't have to let it

[00:35:29] drive so we can put fear in the back seat simply by beginning to notice in our body when we feel fear I say oh that's fear we it's a skill it takes practice to recognize fear for what it is

[00:35:42] is simply the body is the brain's response to a potential threat and when we recognize we're in that fear state then take us back and instead of focusing on the risk because fear at the end of

[00:35:54] the day is simply a belief that something bad's about to happen right how can we shift our perspective to the potential reward what could happen if I took this brave step right now if I spoke up maybe

[00:36:06] on that person the first one on the room that everybody's thinking this and everyone's like oh my gosh thank you so much for asking that question I was thinking the exact same thing or maybe you

[00:36:17] have the idea that changes the process for the better and never would have happened if you don't speak up those are things that cause us fear but the fear is not always our friend so she talks

[00:36:30] about recognizing it as a signal that something great is about to happen and how do we create more bravery and and so I do talk about both of those things when I go into our organization or a

[00:36:42] team or even in my one-on-one coaching but the reason I still use safety as one of the words and my three pillars and how I say we create space is simply because we don't talk about it enough

[00:36:55] so I like to say no leader wakes up every morning and says hmm how can I create more fear in my company today let me see what can I do right no one's doing that unless they're kind

[00:37:05] of associated path and I don't think there's a lot of those out there but people are afraid anyway or stressed anyway or burnt out anyway even though that's not your intention and it is because our processes our policies are procedures the way that we're running the company

[00:37:22] the way that the unspoken messages have all these hidden micro stressors in our better simply not human friendly so unless we go into the workplace with a deliberate mindset of creating safety and this

[00:37:34] also comes right out of any evidence and's work she says that the only way to create safety is to intentionally consistently signal safety over and over again so that people can begin

[00:37:46] to then be brave because they still are going to have to be brave at the same time and that's why I think safety is important so I'm 100% on board with Bernay and I'm 100% on board with Amy Amonson and I think that the two approaches work really well together

[00:38:02] this might be a little bit of a curve ball and it's not intended to be a curve ball this morning I was reading an article about what type and when to use humor in the workplace

[00:38:14] it was talking about negative humor that ultimately has a target whether it's self-directed or other directed that that negative type of humor has a negative effect in organizations whereas if you make fun of or find humor in situations that everyone can find humor in

[00:38:35] that's referred to as a positive form of humor and actually creates greater connection have you heard about anything like this or have you found that to be part of your approach to helping organizations achieve a level of safety bravery, connection and even purpose

[00:39:00] it's a really fascinating question Roger I'm not familiar with that particular study and I'm and I have to say I don't consider myself a very funny person so typically humor is not in my toolbox however fun absolutely is and it is a huge humanizing element and force

[00:39:22] in the workplace and some of what I did a little bit in my last job we were part of the great places to work survey one of the questions they ask on their survey their benchmark surveys

[00:39:35] is my organization a fun place to work and it's amazing how fun correlates also with trust and wealth well-being and with belonging and other elements that make people then great advocates for their workplace and people who say this is a place I would recommend to my friend so

[00:39:55] employ net promoter score for example as a benchmark measurement so yeah I think fun is an incredible force for well-being and for employee retention and and talent attraction and that's the

[00:40:11] ROI like if we're going to go back to organizational speak like the ROI of all this stuff is still you want to be a company where people are drawn to work for you want to be a magnet for

[00:40:23] tell us especially in this current market and when you have your employees you want to retain them because as the studies show it costs roughly two and a half times an annual salary that

[00:40:34] employee to replace them if they leave so you want to be able to retain your talent attract talent and you do that by having an incredible work environment where people want to go and fun is

[00:40:45] absolutely an element of that but I would agree with the study that when you don't know what's funny taboo everybody has a little different sense of funny and certainly pointing out somebody's flaws

[00:40:56] in a public way even if you think you're doing it good hardingly could be not fun for that person of or potentially other people but you describe kind of the sign-failed S. humor you know of just

[00:41:08] making fun of the obvious that everybody's thinking and it is completely deep personalized but I think that is a great approach. What is the impact on you when you have created and the

[00:41:21] help space for others? You know when I say that my life hasn't turned out the way it was supposed to and involved a lot of pain like I said some broken marriages and even right now broken relationships

[00:41:33] with one of my children. I wasn't always a great mom and I can say that without shame because I've done my work to hold space for myself and I can look back and say you know it

[00:41:51] I was doing the best I could at that time in my life. I was going through a lot of emotional trauma and I didn't have anything in me to give so I hurt my kids and I think it's important for me to say

[00:42:06] that out loud for myself and also for all the moms out there listening what moms, dads, it's not easy being a parent and we're just humans bringing our best selves to those situations and not always

[00:42:16] showing up the way we wanted to. And I say that I tell that story because now I fast forward and I look back and I'm like man I wish I knew the things I knew about humans, about children, about

[00:42:31] development, about core needs then when my kids were little that I knew now. I can't go back and rewrite history. So I have that, I hold that sadness without shame but I still hold that sadness

[00:42:47] but now I know better I can do better right and that's what my Angela always says right that the key is once you know better to do better. So that is how it's how it's how it's how

[00:42:58] did impact on me is I'm truly deeply committed to hold better space for my adult children and I did for them when they were little and they've got to work out their own

[00:43:08] hurt that's legitimate till they're in a place where they will let me but I get to do that with other people as well. I have a very rich deep network of friends of community of tribe

[00:43:19] of people that I get to hold space for clients, I get to hold space for it is such an honor. Like I said in my yoga mission it's sacred like I get to hold sacred space for people to be held and

[00:43:33] seen and known and just to connect with themselves. I do come in with subject matter expertise. I love being an expert you can tell I love talking about this topic maybe a little too much

[00:43:45] but I really believe that the core to holding space for people is to realize they are the experts in themselves. I don't know their story at their experience. I don't know it's best for them

[00:43:58] but if I can hold space with empathy and curiosity I can help them find that path back to true self and that is just incredible for me to witness but it's been incredible for me to forgive myself

[00:44:12] by holding space for me to have done the best that I could and to find grace and healing in that and then I think it's had an incredible impact on people who get to experience that too.

[00:44:23] Thank you for sharing that. That is powerful stuff. Your ability to create and hold space is a wonderful gift to be able to give to other people. It's also an incredible gift to yourself

[00:44:38] which is lovely. I love how you can talk about these things that you have sorrow but not shame because again our friend Renee Brown will tell us about such negative detrimental impacts of shame but being able to pull those apart. It's really clear that you've done this work

[00:44:56] for yourself and you can bring this for others and hopefully not only it has had a immediate impact of allowing creating the space so other people can work on the things that they

[00:45:08] want to work on but hopefully it also has the impact where you're demonstrating how to hold space and therefore maybe that other person can be a little bit better at holding space for others as well.

[00:45:22] Yeah I really believe that this is trans could be transformative to our world. It's what our world needs most I think right now and the reason I'm focusing on workplace is because we spend

[00:45:33] so much time here and it's like the last great frontier and there's certainly great therapists out there there are great coaches out there. There are communities, tribes, communities of faith, just communities in general that are getting better at recognizing we can't live in this

[00:45:49] level of volatility and division and polarization any longer. We have to come together as a world to see one another and to bring more curiosity empathy and have hard conversations with the heart of unconditional positive regard for the person sitting in front of us

[00:46:08] but it feels like the workplace is the place we still put up the mask and get the job done and we spend so much time there so I'm hoping to help transform workplaces as the next great

[00:46:21] frontier to really like I say transform the world. What I believe you're describing is that process of regeneration. Yeah. What you do is very regenerative not only in the moment but then the impact

[00:46:35] of it. So what do you know to be true about creating and holding space? It's what we're all longing for there's an incredibly powerful image I share a lot when I speak publicly or do

[00:46:48] workshops. It's a sculpture called Love and it's from the Burning Man Festival. It's an image of two children reaching out to one another within a framework of two adults who are sitting cross-armed back to back and the artist's name is Alexander Malav. It represents to me what I

[00:47:10] call a human condition. These two children desperately longing and reaching out for one another, wanting that connection, wanting to be seen to be helped but they're trapped inside these adult

[00:47:21] bodies who are in self-protect mode who are hurting. We all long to be seen and known and to value one another. I know this to be true. Our brains are wired to that and yet we're afraid

[00:47:33] we live in fear. Our brains are also wired to avoid rest, to avoid pain, to avoid loss and suffering and we have known no greater suffering in our lifetime than probably that caused by humans. So

[00:47:47] we both long for and fear human connection and it is our very act of self-protection that is preventing us from getting the one we long for the most and know this to be true. Yeah, I love what you call

[00:48:03] it out that paradox of what we long for and yet what we're wired for and you're really what you're talking about is this approach that help us sort of hold and manage both of those things at

[00:48:18] the same time. Yeah, it takes effort, it takes intentionality. I think is the word that Amy Emmett's in used and we have, it takes awareness and that's why I'm speaking about it. I don't

[00:48:32] think people consciously are aware that this is happening and so bringing awareness to it is the first step and to your point about not completely getting rid of fear. I completely agree with what Brunei

[00:48:43] Brown says to about vulnerability. It's not about bearing your soul and oversharing every single thing about you all the time to all people everywhere, right? Like that's not what she means by vulnerability and it's not healthy and not everybody's safe. There are certainly people who have demonstrated

[00:49:01] that they may be or not people you want to share everything about you with but it's you can check your stories that's for Nebron 101, check your stories and recognize is this fear I have

[00:49:15] real or imagined? How likely is this actually going to happen? What am I basing this fear on and can I then push through it to get to the potential reward on the other side? What did you believe

[00:49:28] early on about creating and holding space for others that you've come to learn to not be true? I think I used to believe that I because I desperately needed approval and I needed my validation

[00:49:40] from outside of myself and I tried to make myself into somebody that could be liked or I would try to figure out how particularly I knew to get that attention that I wanted or needed for validation

[00:49:54] and I've learned through really Nebronese research but also through experience that I have to belong to myself first is what she says that the first place in this is where you started I

[00:50:05] have to create space for myself so if I don't if I'm not true to who I am I'm not really belonging I'm not really being seen it becomes like a drug that I can never get enough of and so the first step

[00:50:19] I can think I've learned when it comes to creating space is like you said early on create space for me first know who I am love who I am honor who I am and don't compromise who I am in order to fit in

[00:50:37] in order to get connection so you talked about the value of having fun so let's have a little fun are you ready for the lightning round okay let's try so fill in the blank creating and holding space is

[00:50:54] necessary who in your life creates and hold space for you lots of people I'm so blessed is there a practice or a team that helps you grow nurture a renew your ability to create and hold space

[00:51:09] yeah meditation what is one thing that gets in your way of creating and holding space for others my own fear of rejection um my own fear is still leading approval what is a word or phrase that describes what creating and holding space feels like when it's

[00:51:29] had a positive impact sacred if a listener wants to ask you a question or follow up with you where do you want to point them to i'm i have a website regenerative workplaces dot com on that website

[00:51:42] or links to schedule time for a discovery session if you want to talk more about coaching one on one or about workplace well being strategy or you could just shoot me an email if you don't want to go

[00:51:53] to those links it's just Rebecca dot Hawkins at regenerative workplaces dot com you also can find me on LinkedIn so look for me there and on tick-tock i'm gonna tick-tock as regenerative Rebecca

[00:52:06] well Rebecca thank you so much for you know creating space and sharing here your story what you know to be true about creating and holding space and showing up in such a vulnerable humble

[00:52:23] authentic way it uh it was an honor to be just part of this conversation and to get to know you a little bit more and i'm really looking forward to the next conversation thanks Roger oh we

[00:52:35] should all the best of this podcast and the great work that you're doing as well thank you so much thank you a big thank you to Rebecca i'm really grateful to her for sharing her story

[00:52:51] her wisdom and her practice of creating and holding space for others i love how what we're back a highlights is that what we're all longing for is authentic human connection and creating

[00:53:03] and holding space for others is how we can make and deepen that human connection i'm still struck by the paradox she highlighted that we're all wired for fear and yet we all long to be seen

[00:53:15] to be appreciated and to be connected we each face the challenge to achieve that connection and yet we need to manage our fear of being rejected and the greatest gift we can give each other

[00:53:28] is the ability to create and hold space so the other person can be seen and feel connected this conversation leads me to reflect on a few things who is creating and holding space for me so i

[00:53:40] can explore my questions and uncertainties in life and when i'm jumping into soon to apply my superhero power when i could be creating and holding space for others am i creating less

[00:53:51] connection between us if you are not sure what your superhero power is one of the easiest ways to discover it is to ask a trusted friend or colleague they know what it is what do you know to be

[00:54:03] true is a three blue pens production i'm your host Roger Casner we are recording on the ancestral lands of the dowamish and sequimish people to discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose land you may be on go to native hyphenlands.ca okay be well my friends

[00:54:24] so you're good with yoga in the workplace how about trust falls do you find the first for our trust falls as well but don't even you don't I will not with your help yeah exactly i will

[00:54:36] not require you to respond to that ridiculous statement. I wish i was fun here. that wasn't my superpower. yeah we don't we don't I mean if everyone was funny then no one would be funny.

[00:54:52] right yeah that's why we love communities yeah this thing bring us to a place we couldn't get to ourselves. I did as you know later it's been vulnerable and coming in with humidity talking humidity humidity leaders talking with um hopefully more humidity than humidity and