Four Ways to Access Joy Anytime – Fuel Your Purpose and Superpower | Anna Hall

Transcript

Roger: I was talking with a friend recently who shared with me how elusive joy feels right now, and it got me thinking about the power of joy and how joy is essential for our ability to make positive change happen. So I wanted to talk with someone who knows a lot about joy and the role that joy plays in our purpose and in our potential.

Anna: But joy is a precursor, I believe, to being able to live in purpose. Purpose is giving and getting meaning and joy. So when I know that my joy has been shared with someone or we've connected in joy or I've amplified joy, that is the definition of purpose. 

Roger: Anna Hall is a purpose guide, a business owner, and a people leader.

She's been studying purpose and joy for over 20 years. And she's exactly the person I wanted to talk with to learn more about joy, not just in an outcome of a positive experience, but about the power that joy can give us to live into our own strengths, our purpose, and our potential. 

And Anna delivers 

Anna: Joy is very potent. 15 minutes a day can feel your whole day. Don't wait for the weekend to get joy because then you're going to need like more than the two days that you have. You got to get joy on a regular basis. Don't delay joy. Don't put it off. It's like the coolest most effective way of self care that I am aware of.

If you're living life, you're going to fall down. So don't try to avoid that. That's fear. That prevents us from. Getting the most out of every day, but but knowing that you can get back up is resilience. And when you have joy, you have the energy to do that. There are a lot of things that you can't control, but what you can control is getting that dose of joy.

Roger: And it even shares with us the four ways that we can access joy whenever we want it. And whenever we need it. This is a timely conversation because yes, while there's a lot going on in the world today, joy is not just a counterbalance to it. It can be the fuel for the positive changes we want to make in the world.

Anna: What I'm learning is that joy is always accessible to us. It's a matter of awareness. That's the power of joy. 

Roger: Welcome to the, what do you know to be true podcast? I'm Roger Kastner. And for over 25 years, I've been working with leaders and teams to explore and co design new ways of thinking and taking action so that they can unlock their potential and create meaningful impact in these conversations.

I talk with ordinary people about their extraordinary skill and the meaningful impact it has on others. The goal is not to try to emulate or hack our way to a new talent. Instead, the intention is to learn more about their experience with their superpower. And in doing so, maybe we can learn something about the special talent in each of us that drives us towards our potential.

If you're ready, let's dive in.

Hey, Anna, thank you for joining me today. It's great to be here with you. And I'm so excited that we get to talk about joy today. Before we jump in, you are my purpose guide and you are a purpose guide. You are the CEO and founder of The Purpose Equation. You are the chief culture and community officer for Front Porch.

And you are the star of episode 21 of this podcast. And you are the first guest. To be a repeat guest on this podcast. And like I said, you are one of my guides when it comes to purpose and joy. What else should we know about you? 

Anna: You make me feel all shy now. I don't know if I'm going to be able to talk. It's such an honor to be the first repeat guest.

Thank you so much. Thank you. But it does make me nervous. 

Roger: And, and I, I, I beg of you, please let's break through your shyness and your momentary. inability to talk. 

Anna: Believe me, that will only be momentary. That's because we're talking about my favorite subjects. 

Roger: Well, uh, before we jump into those, let's talk about one of my favorite topics. What's most important for us to know about you? 

Anna: I have a deep belief because I have evidence and see evidence. It's evidence of it. Every single day that every single human has a unique purpose and that our world becomes. Better and better with every being who connects with their why. And I get to live and work in that space.

And so I feel like one of the luckiest humans in the world. 

Roger: What a beautiful way to start. So the first time you were here, we talked about your super power of fairness, and we talked a lot about purpose, which is awesome. And this time. We want to talk about joy, but I know it's really hard to talk about joy without talking about purpose.

So lay it on me. What's the relationship between joy? 

Anna: Okay, so first I'll start with a story, then I'll give you a metaphor. When I work with humans, and I say humans, from CEOs to college students, people all ages and stages in their life journey. When I, when I become their purpose guide to help them discover their innate why.

Before we go into any kind of purpose discovery or activation, we start with joy. Many people, especially in our society are not getting enough joy, and I'll explain why that's important. But joy is a precursor. I believe to being able to live in purpose. So let's define purpose. I think my definition is better than the dictionaries.

I know that's audacious to say, but the, the definition of purpose in the dictionary is to be motivated, motivated towards an outcome to be forward looking to reach goals. And so I'm proposing that that's actually the outcome of purpose. What is purpose actually it's giving and getting meaning and joy every day.

So giving and getting speaks to the nature of purpose as an exchange of energy. Sometimes you're giving, sometimes you're getting it's internal. It's external. It's as above so below, right? As within so without, and then meaning and joy is, is in a way how that energy is experienced. Is unique to all of us based on our purpose.

Our, our unique combination of brain anatomy, biochemistry, genetics, uh, uh, physiology. So we're all, let's just start with that fact. We are all unique. There will never be another Roger. There can never be another being with the combination of all of these things that you are. And so how you give and get meaning and joy.

Is unique to you and that light that's inside of you. So I'll call it a purpose light that we're born with because it's innate. This purpose light is first fueled within for you to feel meaning and feel joy. That's an internal thing. Now, external things can help to create that feeling, but it starts with this feeling inside and that's where joy is tied to motivation.

Intrinsic motivation is the recipe for that is knowing what you value, knowing what's natural to you, being aware of it, and then combining it with this potent feeling of, of joy that makes you lose track of time and self and Feel completely delighted and after you feel energized. So when that light inside of us gets fueled, then we have enough of this energy to shine a unique wavelength out into the world so that other people can experience our purpose.

So purpose is giving and getting meaning and joy every day. Well, how do you have the energy to fuel this light inside of you? That when it's fueled enough goes out into the world. I'm proposing. That energy is joy, and that's why I call it joy fuel. So in this journey of purpose discovery, I never work with anyone on what is your purpose until we get to how do you access joy?

And then I have them joy fuel for 7 days before our next experience together. 100 percent of the time, people say they have more energy. They're more present. They, uh, feel happier, an outcome, and they're starting to feel just more connected to themselves and to their life. And then we go into purpose discovery.

Joy and purpose are interwoven. And at the same time for purpose activation, joy is a precursor. It's a prerequisite. 

Roger: You just talked about values being a component of that. 

Anna: Absolutely. 

Roger: And, and it got me thinking, okay, what is the, you know, between joy, joy being the foundation that allows for purpose to thrive.

Anna: Yes. 

Roger: What's the role of values in there? 

Anna: So let's talk about what joy is and what values are in purpose. So, so let's go to the word meaning. Humans are meaning making machines. We are programmed to put meaning on things that have no meaning so that we can have a sense of understanding enough to justify perseverance.

So I might say, you know, I'm wearing a shiny necklace and you have a shiny light behind you. And so we were meant to be having this conversation today. You know, how do I make this feel meaningful? So that I can be motivated to keep going. And then the values piece is what, what I value is what is meaningful to me.

So I know my values very clearly because they are required for me to live in purpose. My top three values are being creative. I need to be creative every day in some way, and I appreciate deeply creativity and others and the outputs of creativity. I need to learn. Every single day, something I'm, I consider myself a learner and I do not like to be called an expert on purpose.

Yes, I'm obsessed with it, but I don't know if I can ever be an expert. The more I learn, the more I know there is to learn. And then my 3rd value is love. I intentionally approach every situation, every person, every challenge. With love, because I believe it is the universal energy that unites us all. And tapping into that gives me a great sense of empowerment and meaning.

And so then when I think about, well, what brings me a sense of joy, I get the most joy out of learning and creating and connecting with our world through this love energy. So does that make sense that how they are connected? 

Roger: It does. So what do you see as the difference between joy and happiness? 

Anna: Joy is nature's potent dose of medicine to fuel our resilience.

And when I think about resilience, I think about our ability to know that we're going to fall down and know that we're going to get back up again. If you're living life, you're going to fall down. So don't try to avoid that. That's fear that prevents us from getting the most out of every day. But, but knowing that you can get back up.

is resilience. And when you have joy, you have the energy to do that. So here's an example. I have a friend who is mourning the loss of her husband of 60 years. Imagine transformation in her life. And she's grieving and she needs to grieve. We need to grieve. Avoiding grief actually isn't even a real thing.

You can't avoid it. You have to move through it. Eventually you got to move through it. As she is feeling this deep sadness and loss and navigating this change, she is also able to feel joy in the memories that they've shared, the family that they created, and even walking through it. Through her neighborhood and feeling a deep sadness.

She's able to notice the sun is out that day and to feel the warmth on her cheek. And so she can take the next step. That is joy. That's the power of joy. It's not something that we need to find. What I'm learning is that joy is always accessible to us. It's a matter of awareness. And for many people, it's a matter of.

Becoming aware and noticing and feeling it and naming it because it is all around us. 

Roger: I think people get confused between happiness and joy. 

Anna: I think so. 

Roger: As I'm reading the literature on joy and on happiness, they're, they're kind of being used interchangeably. I think joy is also an outcome, but I think it's a motivator.

Anna: Yes. 

Roger: Like I got out of bed this morning with the joy knowing I was going to talk to you. Happiness feels like dopamine and joy feels like oxytocin. Something is like in the moment fleeting. Something makes me happy and joy feels something that's more universal that has resonance that's going to stay with me.

And maybe that speaks to that potency. 

Anna: I think it does. Joy is, is, is deeper. It's felt more throughout our entire being. It's, you know, mental, emotional, physical, chemical. Happiness, I think is more of a lighter kind of slower burn that can be an outcome of joy. We need, I believe that we need joy in order to get to happiness.

And in order to fuel our purpose, which we can talk about more happiness, I think is, is a result of joy. It's a result of peace. It's a, it's a result of enough ness. Yeah. I keep coming back to the word outcome, but I don't think you can decide to be happy. I think when you have joy and peace, and especially when you're connected with your purpose and you know how to give and get in the realm of purpose every day.

That happiness becomes a side effect of that. It's like, right, like joy is the pill. Happiness is the side effect. 

Roger: And it was about a year ago, a leader in my company was talking about how, uh, we can hold joy and grief at the same time. That made me think in the story you just told makes me think joy and grief are not two separate things.

Anna: No. 

Roger: I don't think you could have grief without having joy to begin with. 

Anna: No, how could you move through it without getting that dose of energy to keep moving? 

Roger: And the thing that you're grieving was something that was a source of joy. 

Anna: Absolutely. I think that grief is part of joy and grief is part of life.

It's part of everything, just like love is. It's part of the, it's part of our experience. Like you said, we grieve things that we loved. When I was a kid, I was taught that life is about trying to avoid the hard things, make choices where that are going to make your life easier. But what I found is that I wasn't truly living the richness and the depth that life had to offer by avoiding what might be hard.

And in fact, what I've learned is that moving through the hard things and figuring them out Is where growth lives. There's a lot of philosophy out there about suffering, that suffering is part of life and it's not necessarily about avoiding suffering, but it's about embracing it almost and, and maybe.

redefining suffering as one of the most painful yet effective ways to grow. And again, joy can exist in suffering. Joy can exist in grief. 

Roger: What I'm hearing you say, being connected to love and joy and purpose helps you move with, survive with grief. 

Anna: Yes, working in, in the senior living industry, having been adopted and adopted many, many older adults as my friends, family, grandparents, colleagues, the, the loss is inevitable because we aren't meant to live forever.

And when I first started in the industry in my early twenties. When I lost, and I remember them, Irving, and Margaret, and Gay, and Evelyn, and Emmy, they were my first losses. I was almost paralyzed with grief. I went to their celebrations of life, or funerals, memorial services, and I was inconsolable. I cried more than their family.

I mean, it was probably, it was inappropriate, the level of expression of that grief. I And by the way, many of those people that I named and hold in my heart with me still in my new normal, we're living with Alzheimer's and other diseases that cause dementia. Um, it was there being that I was connected with, you know, cognition, I think is something separate.

We can talk about that someday too. But what I, the way that I learned, and I still. Hold that grief with me and live in my new normal and stay in this space that I live and work in Is an incredible sense of gratitude for getting to know those people. I got to know Irving What a gift that at that moment in time our paths crossed He was a World War II veteran.

He survived the shores of Normandy. He fell in love with Margaret when he was 92 and she was 89.

He took me on adventures in the town that we were living in where the retirement community was because I was new and I got to learn the history of that town and about people and places that I never would have known that are not in any history book. So. It's, it's that residue of having known that person that I get to carry with me throughout my life and then share with others.

Grief and joy. 

Roger: Grief and joy. 

Anna: We've been talking about love and energy, but really what informed my dive into purpose was research and data. And there is, uh, theories of aging that show us That as we get older, meaning as we have, as we are cognitively aware, we have fewer years ahead of us than we have already lived that are behind us emotionally and psychologically.

Humans start to focus more and more on meaning. Humans who are not having older adults in their life, who are more in this mindset of, meaning is where it's at, like, meaning is really what life is about. All these other things are things. It's about meaning and joy and purpose is, is what our journey is for to that richness of experience and knowledge combined, uh, to create wisdom, which is something completely separate and beautiful.

That's not necessarily based on age, but is more likely to be there with older adults is it's like, it's missing out on, again. Yeah. So much richness in life. I am who I am today because I have had these relationships and these interactions. With older adults whose brains and mentality have become more and more focused on meaning.

Roger: I think that explains why I started this podcast now and not 20 years ago. 

Anna: Yes, absolutely. I mean, we, 

Roger: we didn't have podcasts 20 years ago, but, um, But I, I, I mean, I, I think i'm, i'm, i'm maturing enough to the point where, um, Understanding other people's meanings becomes inspire, inspiration for me and my search for my own meaning.

Anna: Yes, it's insight and perspective at once. 

Roger: And so what inspired you to find this connection between purpose and joy? 

Anna: Nothing. I stumbled upon it. I stumbled upon it completely. When I initially made the purpose equation, joy fuel was not a part of it. People taught me about the importance of joy, uh, as, as I was helping them to discover their purpose.

What I found with purpose discovery is that let's go back to this theory that we all have this light inside of us. And the more it's fueled and the more it shines, the more we can feel meaning and joy and the more we can share meaning and joy. But there are some things that happen to us in our life that can, that can cause us to be less fueled for our light to sh to be less bright internally and externally.

And some of those things that I found are, well, the number one thing is that many, many, many of us, including myself, but I'm aware of it. So I could work on this, have this, um, Deep seated sense that we are not enough. And when we think that we're not enough, it leads to overcompensating, overworking, comparing ourselves to others to figure out what they have that we don't so that we can be enough.

And that is very draining. It is very draining to move through life thinking you're not enough. And the saddest part of it is that we're born enough. It's a matter of just knowing that you're enough and sharing that, right? The other thing that gets in the way of people being able to fully give and get meaning and joy every day, which is their purpose is guilt.

I should do this. I should do that should equals guilt. And many of us are raised to think that if we should ourselves. That we're motivating ourselves, but should and guilt actually don't work to motivate us. They actually get us more stuck and less inclined to take action. Whereas when we think about what brings us joy and what brings us meaning and intrinsic motivation, what's exciting, what do we get to do because we would do it anyway.

That's what drives us. So I found the joy. Actually gave a preview of a person's values and intrinsic motivations. So then I thought, okay, what if we could start off helping people be intrinsically motivated and get in touch with their get to and move away from their shoulds. And I found that when I gave people a purpose prescription to go out and intentionally accept the joy that was all around them, And to amplify it on purpose that they would come back to me a week later, more energized, more open, more hopeful, more actually feeling like, Oh, this purpose thing that feels so vague and intangible.

I'm actually feeling what you're talking about now. So let's keep going.

Roger: One of my favorite things to do is go around and ask people, you know, when you're walking in the hall and you run into someone you haven't seen for a little bit. And instead of ask about the weekend or the weather, it's Hey, what's sparking joy? Um, and I love that moment of, you know, sort of they're, they're snapped a little bit and they have to think about it and they're, they light up.

They stand a little taller and they share something and it's just, it's just lovely to hear the thing that sparking joy for them. What I don't think I was aware of until you said it is that they're actually talking about the things that they value and that gives meaning to them. Yes. And I love you tying that bow on, on that for me of why that's so, so joyful for me to witness that and other people.

Anna: So I have a question for you. 

Roger: Okay, hit me 

Anna: in my deep study of joy with lots of practice and lots of purpose discovery I actually found that there's four main ways people access joy. So I joy fuel is is actually a program Let's call it a hack To get to joy faster because life is busy and our brain likes to categorize and label things so that we can just get to it and skip steps and not use as much fuel.

So there's 4 main ways I found that people access joy and when I do workshops and purpose guide experiences, I bring people through an exercise. To help them figure out their main form of joy field. Cause remember we said, joy is very potent. 15 minutes a day can feel your whole day. Don't wait for the weekend to get joy because then you're going to need like more than the two days that you have.

You got to get joy on a regular basis. Don't delay joy. Don't put it off. It's like the coolest, most effective way of self care that I am aware of, but there's four main ways people get joy and they are movement, adventure, rest. And synergy. You can remember that from the acronym Mars, like the planet. So joy, I describe as joy.

Fueling is losing track of time, losing track of self, feeling delighted. And afterwards you're energized. You're ready to go. You're resilient. You can take on that hard thing. You can keep going on that project that you were stuck on before. Now you Roger are probably thinking, well, Anna, that sounds like a flow state.

And basically I would say it is, you know, when you're, when you're noticing that sun and feeling the warmth on your cheek for just a moment, you're so in that present time that you're not thinking about time or self, or, you know, is my lipstick the right color or is my hair sticking up? Like you're in that moment.

I don't call joy fuel a flow state though, even though it kind of is. Because again, our society has turned a flow state into getting into a mindset to achieve things or to finish things or to get things done. And joy fueling is joy for the sake of joy. Like joy is the objective and the outcome. It's the strategy.

It's the plan. It's the tactic. It's everything joy for the sake of joy. So movement is when you're maybe for some people it's exercising. It's that endorphin high. It's for a lot of people, people, movement is joy fuel because it actually slows down the brain chatter and unites mind, body, and spirit. Uh, it can be weightlifting.

It can be even just taking a moment to stretch that's joy. That feeling. Adventure, I named this one specifically for the older adults who have been my purpose guides throughout my life. Many a 90 year old has said to me, Anna, I am never going to have another adventure. I'm not traveling anymore. You know, that's heartbreaking to hear.

Adventure in the land of purpose and joy means to be curious. To try new things, to think of things in a different way, to open your mind, to learn something new, to try something where you don't know where the outcome is going to be, to meet a new person and be completely curious about what is their joy and what makes them tick, you know, to try a new restaurant.

All of that is curiosity, great joy. The next one is rest, totally undervalued in our society. We, a lot of us say rest equals lazy. Not true. We are human beings. We are biological, chemical, energetic creatures. We need rest. So for some people, rest is getting enough sleep. That's definitely me. But it's also relaxing mind, body, and spirit at once.

And that's where I Listen to music or have a sound bath of lots of bass and beautiful melodies like in headphones in my ears and I'll dance around my house. That to me is rest. And the last one is synergy. Going back to our conversation about energy. It's energetic connection with other people. Also with animals, nature, it can be an energetic connection with, with other beings.

It can also be a transcendent energetic, like spiritual connection with the bigness, the oneness. And I found that people who really resonate with synergy is what makes them lose track of time and self and get energized, have a great affinity to large bodies of water, like oceans and large lakes and trees and mountains.

So, as I describe these to you, Movement, Adventure, Rest, and Synergy, Roger, is there one that really, you need all four to be clear, but is there one that really resonates with you as That's my, that's my main joy fuel pathway. That's where I get my energy. 

Roger: I mean, I'm connecting with all four. Good. Um, synergy is all around connection, as you said, and, uh, made me think about, uh, my friend Mark Meadows, who was, who had an episode recently, but also in all the conversations that I have with him, it's all about connection.

And belonging and what he has taught me about how we all belong to each other already. We're already connected. How much of what we try to do. And life is to separate, you know, separate ourselves from other people. Um, and this idea that we we're all connected and yet we experience life through differences.

I think, I think there's the polarity there where yes, there are differences. We are innately different and yet we're all connected. I love that word synergy. Because that talks to the energy between us and that we all bring and we can all tap into if we choose to Okay synergy that might be recency bias, but my answer I was gonna say 

Anna: your whole demeanor changed when you talked about synergy you lean forward you light up you're excited You need all four But I would say roger if you're having a hard day Or you're feeling kind of stuck or you just can't push through something or you're just you're just feeling low energy Okay My purpose prescription for you would be to go out there and get some Synergy.

Go meet a friend for coffee, go take a walk in nature, go, you know, do something that's energetically connective to get refreshed because that's really what joy fuel is. It's, it's, it's a two part equation. You've got to do things that make like you lost track of time and self when you were talking about synergy, right?

Like you were, you were in the moment. It was exciting. Exciting equals intrinsic motivation, meaning equals values, right? You were talking about connection and relationships. So that's the first part of it. The outcome of joy fuel is that you're energized, right? And so I heard your, your outcome is of synergy is like, why you do this podcast is synergy.

You're connecting with people and sharing that energy out into the world. Yes. It's all I invite you to think of. of these activities as joy fueling. When you, when you allow your brain to give it that name, it helps you connect even faster with the energy that comes with feeling joy to fuel your light.

You know, I, Oh, I'm recording a podcast today. I'm going to get my joy fuel. I'm doing a workshop today. I'm going to go joy fuel at work today, 

Roger: which, which is interesting. Cause as, as I shared with you before I hit the record button on, on podcast days, when I wake up, I get anxious when I'm leading a, a big workshop.

And it's like, I, Cognitively understand this is what I love to do. This is what I'm good at. This is, you know, where I want to spend more time. This is going to bring me joy. And so I connect with that motivation, but then there's, you know, the other little voice or the other little wolf that, that says, don't mess this up.

Anna: Yeah. Well, for many people, anxiety, anticipation, and excitement is kind of the same emotion on a spectrum. It's anticipating. Anxiety is anticipating maybe what might go wrong. Excitement is anticipating what might go right. But it's that same kind of energetic. Feeling, and it means that most of all, that this is something that you care about.

I always say the day that I'm going to record a podcast or do a workshop, or even show up to my day job without a little bit of care and anxiety about. How I'm going to show up and what the outcomes of that might be, then that's probably the day I should stop doing it. Cause I'm not going to be bringing that energy.

Roger: I had to write it down instead of asking what could go wrong. Ask what could go right. 

Anna: Yeah. 

Roger: And I think in that moment where it's like, uh, the thing I love to do is dragging me down. If you ask that question, what could go right? Does that flip? That may be unintentional, unaware. Oh, this is anxiety, not excitement.

How do I flip it to excitement? And I take it even 

Anna: a step further. I say, I know something's going to go wrong. And it could be a little thing like, you know, the PowerPoint doesn't work or the technology's not working. Uh, you know, I forget a main concept. I, I say something that I need to apologize for, like something is going to go wrong.

And so that's just a form of like acceptance and peacefulness. Knowing that it's not really about that, that's life. It's about what do we get to do together? 

Roger: I was just thinking about the times where things go quote unquote wrong. 

Anna: Exactly. 

Roger: Like the time I showed up to run a workshop, get into the conference room, and I start looking around for The display and there's no display.

And then I start looking around for the projector this a few years ago. So it was more of a projector and there's no projector and it's a four hour workshop and it's like, Oh, you know, and as, as a consultant, I'm a PowerPoint geek and fan. And so I had all my slides and no projector. It's like, I get to whiteboard this awesome.

And, and I look back at it and it. That moment taught me not only how well do I know my stuff, but I also learned in the moment of doing that. And because we were drawing stick figures going through this work. Um, it actually, it, it required a level of innovation and creativity. Um, that I'm really glad I leaned into because.

I think, I think it was a better session for the client team. Um, but it was also a better session for me. So there's a little bit of, um, or there's a lot of bit of like when things go wrong or opportunities to learn. 

Anna: Oh, yes. The suffering is growth thing, right? Like, and when you know your purpose and you have enough joy fuel, you're adaptable, you're resilient.

There are a lot of things that you can't control, but what you can control is. Getting that dose of joy. 

Roger: So you had asked me, which of the four elements of Mars is the one that I relate to the most, which is the one that you relate to the most. 

Anna: Like you all four really resonate with me, but it, it, for me, it's very clear that rest is my primary.

I need a lot of rest. In order to be adventurous, in order to be physical, in order to have, to be energized, to share the energy, I need rest. I need relaxation of mind, body, and spirit all at once. 

Roger: And I can understand that from every conversation you and I have, you're coming in at 11 out of, out of 10, when it comes to energy level, you're always bringing the energy.

And I know when I'm, um, when I'm, Leading workshops or coaching or doing the things I'm doing like this podcast. There's a lot of output. There's a lot of energy spent and it's, you know, maybe not mentally energy draining, but physically it's energy draining. And I feel like really excited mentally after these experiences, but physically I'm drained.

So I I'm relating to what you're saying there of like, I need to physically rest. 

Anna: Yeah, 

Roger: is that is that the same for you? 

Anna: It's it's physical rest and it's like mental spiritual emotional rest, which is why music Is so critical for me as a being to be able to function. I feel like music recalibrates my energy.

And so to me, it helps slow down the mind, which is always like chirping at me. Like the mind movie. I'm aware that it's a movie, so I don't absorb it. Meditation really helps with that. Uh, and then the physical, I do put out a lot of energy, but it took me years to be okay with needing rest. I'm an extrovert, but I need quiet time.

I need time to read. I need time to listen to music. I need time to sleep. And the more I have allowed and accepted that, the more I've become like my best self. 

Roger: I want to thank you for sharing the MARS acronym, how we find our joy. It's a hack for 

Anna: joy. Everyone go get your joy. You need it. 

Roger: I don't like the word hack, but that's, that's probably my thing.

It's, you know, a, a hack feels like it's a shortcut. This is a shortcut. Is it though? What's the long road to joy? 

Anna: The long road to joy is trying to move through life and kind of figure out what your values and intrinsic motivations and excitements and meanings are. Whereas if, you know, I can just focus in on.

Movement, adventure, rest and synergy in which one lights me up. You can get to joy faster and we all need more joy so that we can all be better as individuals and collectively. So I, yes, I very intentionally created a shortcut to joy. 

Roger: And, and I love that. I guess when I think about hack, it's like, how do you achieve something without doing the work?

And you're not talking about not doing the work you're talking about specific actions to help land a belief. 

Anna: Yes, and trying to simplify, like, a big concept with a lot of research and a lot of inputs into something that, that's simple that we can activate in our daily life. 

Roger: So Anna, what do you know to be true about joy?

Anna: It's what powers us through our life, and that, that it is abundantly available if we pay attention. 

Roger: What did you believe early on about joy? That you've come to believe is not true. 

Anna: I did not appreciate its potency or its power or its, its necessity to fuel my ability to be my best self, my ability to do hard things.

My ability to move through that initial fear and then live with it in a new normal. I didn't appreciate how much I needed it to be resilient. And so now that I know I need it, I schedule joy in my life. I schedule it. I will choose it over even productivity and doing other like meeting deadlines. Because I see the difference in my joy fueled self versus my depleted self.

And it's, there's, it's, it's a very clear choice. 

Roger: What's an example of something you schedule for joy? 

Anna: On the weekends, I schedule time to listen to music and dance around my house and sing, even though I cannot sing. And when I've been traveling a lot and having a lot of meetings, I know that I need more time to do that.

Um, I will schedule. Days in meeting times where I can get an extra hour of sleep in the morning, but I actually get more done on those days than days where I forced myself to not get enough rest and power through. So that those are ways that I schedule it. I schedule a zoom meeting or a lunch in the middle of the day, even though I have a million things to do, because I know that getting that synergy is going to give me the energy to be more efficient for the rest of the day.

Roger: You just walked us through the Mars acronym again. So what's next for you and your exploration of joy? 

Anna: Well, I have the most incredible, it feels wrong to call it a job, but working at front porch. Taking on the responsibility to help build out an incredible culture that already exists in an organization and leverage it to light people up with joy and purpose so that as an organization we can use our culture as an accelerant to meet our strategic goals.

And to innovate and to retain and engage our employees is like, I feel like this is everything that I've done up until now has gotten me ready to go on this greatest adventure of my life now, because I get to connect with so many people and so many talents, you know, senior living communities by definition are multi generational entities.

Living entities with these incredible beings that are all interconnected. So that's what I'm so energized about right now is getting to co create culture and learning and growth within and beyond this organization. 

Roger: So, Anna, are you ready for the lightning round? 

Anna: As ready as I'm going to be, 

Roger: let's do it.

So fill in the blank. Joy is. Who in your life provides joy for you? 

Anna: Bliss.

Roger: Is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture, or renew your ability to experience joy?

Anna: Is both adventure, suffering and growth. And it makes me feel the most alive. 

Roger: What's something you forced yourself to do that scared you recently? 

Anna: Um, take this job, chief culture and community officer, you know, what a responsibility that is for all, for helping all of these beings to come together and grow on this mission.

It's, it's intimidating. 

Roger: And yet, as you said, you're not the expert, you're a guide. 

Anna: Yes, that's how I've come to peace with it. 

Roger: Yeah, love that. Is there a book or a movie that you recently consumed that you would recommend that has joy as a theme? 

Anna: I gotta tell you my favorite movie that I've seen recently, and it's not new, is Frozen 2.

Roger: Yeah. 

Anna: It is Made for adults and kids can love it too, but the message is take the next right step. I think life is a journey and you just need to worry about the next step. I always have the vision about where I think those steps are leading and that motivates me a lot, but on a day to day basis it's what's the next right step.

Roger: So what's one thing that gets in your way of joy? 

Anna: Not enough rest. Like it's, it's become very simple for me to know when I'm not, when I'm not my best self, I'm not getting enough rest. I know what it is because I have this hack. So when I, when I push myself too hard and I don't get enough sleep. Um, it gets in the way of my energy and my joy 

Roger: as a joy and purpose guide, I, I, I love how aware and in touch you are with the things that help you find and live into purpose and joy and those challenges that you run into, because I'm sure that helps you in the work that you do with people.

Anna: You know, purpose is clarity. So I'm, I, it's, it's an equation. I'm very clear about if this, then that. It, it simplifies life in a lot of ways. 

Roger: But you're also very human in that. It's not that, you know, every moment for you is full of joy and full of purpose and meaning, and it's, it's, it's not all, um, giggles and rainbows.

It's, um, you're able to talk about these things and, and especially when it's not giggles and rainbows and that, that brings so much more relevance and credibility into what you say. 

Anna: You know, I feel a lot of sadness. I feel things very deeply and I can do that and still keep going because I know my purpose.

I have this anchor. I have this internal scaffolding that allows me to be like the most human, the most vulnerable. That I can be because I know why I'm here and those two things are not at odds. Purpose is giving and getting meaning and joy. So when I know that my joy has been shared with someone or we've connected in joy or I've amplified joy, that is the definition of purpose.

Roger: If a listener wanted to ask you a question and follow up with you, where do you want to point them to? 

Anna: You can email me. Anna@thepurpose equation.com. You can also email me a hall at front porch. net. I'm very fortunate to be on a team at front porch communities and services that really brought me on because of my obsession with purpose and joy and meaning and culture.

And so you can reach me at both places and you can learn more about our culture at front porch. net and you can learn All about purpose. There's videos and workshops and blogs on the purpose equation. com. 

Roger: And a thank you for your wisdom, for your vulnerability, for your time, for putting up with me and my goofiness.

And I really appreciate. Every conversation that we have, because it, it, it just opens up my understanding of these things that you have put in the work to understand. And it, it just illuminates and helps me make sense of these things that I, I know to be true, that I feel to be true. Um, But you've, you've, you've put in the work so I can better understand it.

And hopefully other people who are listening can as well. So on their behalf, thank you for everything you shared with us today. 

Anna: Roger, thank you for our conversation. I felt the synergy. Your synergy is very powerful. And I really appreciate our exchanges. Because yes, I think about purpose and joy every single day and almost every single moment consciously and subconsciously.

You have a way of asking questions and thinking about it, you know, from many different angles that helps me be better and think differently about it, which is very exciting. So, so grateful for our conversation. And I hope that our conversation helps others to access their joy and feel it every day.

Roger: Thank you, Anna. 

Anna: Thank you

Roger: Okay, thank you all for being in this conversation with us And thank you anna for bringing the joy for illuminating our understanding about joy and its role With our purpose and potential and for sharing the four ways to access joy through movement adventure Rest and synergy the question i'm asking myself after this conversation is where can I plan for more moments of synergy?

When I know my joy fuel tanks will be low What do you know to be true is a three blue pens production. And I'm your host, Roger Kastner. We are recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people to discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose land you may be on go to https://native-lands.ca. Okay. Be well, my friends. Love you, mean it.