Overcome Yourself: Embrace Awareness to Thrive | Nana Gyesie

Transcript – Overcome Yourself with Nana Gyesie

Roger: So what gets in your way of using your superpower? When I asked this question of my guests, the nine times out of 10 answer is myself. So I was curious to learn more about how we get in our own way. And more importantly, how do we overcome that part of ourselves that blocks us? And that's when I met Nana JC.

Nana: So if you're compassionate to yourself, you don't do abusive, you don't, Oh, you're silly. Why'd you do that? Nana? Oh, you're this way. Oh, you're not good enough. So that's not going to happen. These are all judgmental self judgment from self judgment. So the opposite is compassion. And in moving away from self judgment to compassion, one is overcoming one's programming, one is nurturing mindfulness and one is also nurturing this real intuitive intelligence that comes from doing and being. Mindful and all focused. If you want to call it that, and having a focused mind is actually the real revolution in a time where being distracted is now commonplace. 

Roger: Nana is a leadership and life coach at Inner Mileage Consulting. He's a mindfulness teacher, a yoga instructor, and as you'll see, he's a profoundly deep thinker. He seamlessly interweaves science and psychology, psychology. Religion, humanity, and humor into the conversation to help us understand why we get in our own way and how to get out of our own way. And although it takes all those disciplines to explain what's going on, not as quick to point out that it's the innate wisdom in each of us that helps us provide that path to compassion, joy, and purpose.

And that path begins with awareness. 

Nana: So the discipline mind, it takes discipline to remain in the presence. Most of us conveniently want to escape to the past or the future, so we're on our phones and doing all these things. But the present is where the discipline is. And in that discipline, the net results of your disciplined work brings joy.

Therefore begets more discipline, which brings joy. Because it actually proves that we, 8 billion of us, are creators. We are the creators, whether we know it or not, because AI was created by you and I. If we're doing malevolent things and it's learning from these large language models and the machine learning that is malevolent and kind, but mostly malevolent, then it's a reflection of humanity.

So are we conscious about what we're creating or are we conscious about what we're creating? 

Roger: Yeah, we cover a lot of ground in this conversation from what the Buddha says about joy to becoming a learner from getting in our own way and preparing for the future of work. Where AI and sentient computers become more commonplace, and through it all, NANA reminds us that we, humans, we are the creators.

We have agency, and through awareness, if we're disciplined enough to embrace it, paraphrasing Amanda Gordon here, If we're disciplined enough to embrace it, if we're brave enough to be it. Welcome to the, what do you know to be true podcast? I'm Roger Kastner. And for over 25 years, I've been working with leaders and teams to explore and co design new ways of thinking and taking action so that they can unlock their potential and create meaningful impact.

In this podcast, I share conversations with ordinary people about their extraordinary skill, their superpower, and the meaningful impact it has on others. The goal is not to try to emulate or hack our way to a new talent. Instead, the intention is to learn more about their experience with their superpower.

And in doing so, maybe we can learn something about the special talent in each of us that drives us towards our potential and living into our possibilities. If you're ready, let's dive in.

Hey, Nana, thank you for joining me today. It's a pleasure to be here with you. I'm excited to learn more about your superpower of overcome yourself. But first, what would you like for us to know about you? 

Nana: Oh, thank you, Roger. It's a pleasure to be here with you and with your audience. And what I want people to know about me is we are reflections of each other.

So I am you, and you are me, and we are all together despite our avatars and our, the, uh, costumes we have for our avatars. So my avatar, Nana, Nana, JC based here in Seattle, really focused on coaching transformational coaching. We for individuals families, but also for organizations and business leaders. And the focus is really on.

Understanding that all phenomena external, whether it's a book of business or trauma is always nearly related to an internal state, conscious or unconscious. So this is what we do. And prior to this, I had a long corporate stint with Microsoft, the Gates Foundation, the World Bank, Deloitte. Booz Allen, a few other blue chip places in various roles, mostly in leadership development and talent, talent management.

And so that's a bit of my focus on the PCC certified coaching. The outfit I run now is called Inner Mileage Coaching, based in Seattle, but available for folks anywhere. When I'm not coaching, you might find me on the streets with my camera, taking pictures of street subjects. Or in the summer, you might catch me listening to loud, regular music with my windows down.

Roger: So that's actually on your website, Innermileage.com. You do have beautiful photography on it. It's those images are very evocative. It's not surprising that you're a photographer. I'm curious about the name of your business though. Tell me a little bit more about that. 

Nana: Actually came to me on a trip to Istanbul. Of course, one is in Istanbul. So one must go to the blue mosque. You hear the cost of prayer often. But this was on a Friday, which is largely the prayer based day. And I'm outside, hearing the call to prayer. I remember when I had this incredible feeling, I'm about to go to see this place that has Roman history and Byzantine history and all this history of the various eras, and I felt something inside, just the combination of the, the singing, the Moazine singing, and then just being in a different unfamiliar place, I realized that travel to unfamiliar places.

It's like traveling within to the unfamiliar parts of who we are. And that's how it started. It initially started as a photography project, but it always stuck with me. And it's almost like I knew that years later, this would be the basis of how I want to live my life, which is to provide an opportunity for organizations and people to get to the root cause of why there are limited factors and full manifestation of Whatever the scenario is.

So this is what inner mileage is. It's about going within, not because one wants to be a monk, but it's realizing that everything without is from within conscious, unconscious, or subconscious. You see? So that's, that's where that comes from. It's a great question. 

Roger: Oh, I love that. And I was thinking of about like the mileage you get when you do travel and the benefits you get from it. I tend to think, Oh, that means you have to be on more planes. And you know, it's, it's, it's always, you know, I think about the journey on the plane, not necessarily the destination. And in this one instance, maybe I should be thinking more about the destination and the, but that's, that's sitting on planes. I was wondering about the benefits you get from your frequent flyer. Mileage for inner mileage. 

Nana: Whichever credit card you use that provides one of these perks to help you use the card even more and give you better incentive to use the card to travel and get these perks that make you want to travel is tantamount to also doing the work with it.

And there's the morning look with it. Whether it's journaling or waking up early to read the newspapers online before everyone wakes up or waking up early to go for your run or do your yoga. These are all forms of, um, perks from using your metaphorical credit card to get these frequent fire medals.

Because the more one invests in one's inner travels, Whatever form that looks like, right? And I'm not suggesting people need to be meditation experts or Buddhist or what have you, but we can call it reflection time. And if the reflection time is just putting your phone down for two minutes, when you typically would use it mindlessly, that is a form of inner mileage, which gets you the frequent five miles.

Because the more you do it, right? The more you are actually establishing a new pattern of thinking and new way of being. Because we're very practiced in being distracted and not very mindful. So we're very good at being distracted and not very mindful, which leads to all kinds of phenomena that are not very helpful often, right?

It's unconscious way of living. And if one also does the same that begins to practice being undistracted here, I'm referencing the work of Nair Eyal or even James Clare on atomic habits. You become, you practice becoming undistracted. You eventually become good at being undistracted, and especially now with artificial intelligence, I've heard this notion of intuitive intelligence.

So what is nurturing mindfulness? And what is also nurturing this real intuitive intelligence that comes from doing and being? Mindful and all focused. If you want to call it that and having a focused mind is actually the real revolution in a time where being distracted is now commonplace. So we are distracted, including me, but can you have moments of mindfulness?

And that's really the benefit of the metaphorical frequent flyer miles from from this exercise 

Roger: Bonus points for you for taking my poorly formed analogy and taking off with it, if I can throw some puns in there, and I loved how you included in some. Of this mindfulness practice is not just meditation, but things like reading the paper or going for a run or going for a walk, taking a moment just to listen, listen for the furthest sound away, and then listen to the closest sound and just noticing and savoring.

And yeah, being undistracted feels really powerful and a great perk. 

Nana: Of that mileage, you know, for a while, we heard a lot about the world economic forums, thoughts on the future of work. And the past year has been a significant leap in that future, but the future generative AI for the most part is already here.

So to paraphrase Canadian writer, William Gibson, the future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed. The future is already here. It's just not evenly distributed. Now you have. The nascent or the early stages of generative AI as a consumer tool for employees, for workers, for business owners, for students.

So you think about generative AI, when you say, what is the potential for AI on a mindful mind knows how to collaborate with this tool for maximum impact? How? Does a leader in an organization do the same? What kind of mindset does it require? What kind of ways of working are now going to be contemporary versus ways of working that existed prior to March 5, 2020?

And everything just changed so quickly now. What kind of human do you have to be as a business leader, as an employee, as a business owner, as a manager, as a person, as a student, to effectively Use the tools available, the good parts of the tools available for maximum impact, for pushing civilization forward in whatever field of work or field of endeavor that we're in, because it's easy to look at it and say, well, AI is going to put doctors out of work, true, AI is going to shift many things, very true, but there are professions that exist today that didn't exist 20, 30 years ago.

In the same way, there will be professions today. Or tomorrow that exists that don't exist today. And it's about really understanding the upsides of using it. To be competitive is to have a non attached mind. What is a non attached mind? It's sort of akin to what futurist Alvin Toffler talked about, that the future belongs to those who can learn.

Unlearn and relearn Alvin. Tough luck. That's what makes you relevant. That's what makes you young. That's what, that's, that's what ensures that you're relevant. So if you think about this in very simplistic ways and say, okay, how do I continue to be of value to myself, my family, my community, my stakeholders?

What, what is my value in this new context? Right? So similarly, people will say things about AI and the current civil world, and it all seems very. Problematic or I see was joy, which is true, but what's the upside? What are the opportunities here? But what I would offer is what are the opportunities?

Because the constant that we all have to battle is time is thermodynamic. The nature of reality is always moving. So it is unnatural to be static. It is going against nature to be static, to be stationed. It's good to be still, but I mean, stacking static is. Stuck without moving with the flow of how things are because everything is a constant vibration and movement.

This is the quantum physics. It's all about looking at the opportunities and connecting and asking oneself what is one's purpose within these opportunities of change. And it is in asking those questions with courage and honesty. That an orientation towards a certain purpose, which provides value comes about and one feels enriched because one is solving a problem in the market, whether for an organization or by oneself.

And that adds to the value of the future work in a way that's consistent with where we are today. 

Roger: I think we could probably talk for an hour on on many of the topics that you just talked about one of them, though, that came that came forward for me that inherent in everything you were just saying about purpose is that true purpose is when it's in service of other people, correct?

And I think when, when people are thinking about generative AI and coming for their jobs, and I love how you referred to it as the intuitive intelligence, I think what's intuitive to being human is this, um, this innate knowledge that we're connected and that we, you know, we find meaning in being in service of others.

And you've all know, uh, Harari's latest book nexus, where he's talking You know, the role of information in civilization throughout the last 10, 000 years. And now with AI coming in, that AI is only going to do what we program it to do. And then it's going to start generating its own thoughts. And if we do not program it with this benevolence of being in service and not do things that are negative for humans, then we might run into some hard times coming forward.

But I think this idea of being being attached to our purpose and being in service of others, um, has always been our path to purpose and our path to meaningful existence. And I think that's not going to change, 

Nana: What she says actually quite powerful because it actually proves. That we, the humans on this planet, the 8 billion of us are creators.

We are the creators, whether we know it or not, because AI was created by you and I. I mean, it was Yen Tung Wong and all these other folks, Sam Altman, but they are us, by people. And so what it, to your point, if we're doing malevolent things and, and, and it's learning from, um, These large language models and the machine learning lens is malevolent and kind, but mostly malevolent, that it's a reflection of humanity.

And then it develops its own consciousness, its own sentience, the sentience of AI tools. But that sentience is based on what the creators created, hence there's a new creation. Do you see where I'm going? When the individual begins to understand that they are a creator, even in an organization, even if you're the lowest on the topping pole, you're there because you're creating something that is good for the aggregate.

So we are creators. So are we conscious about what we're creating or unconscious about what we're creating? And that's where the mindfulness of thinking about where am I, where, where am I going? What do I want to do? Whether that's a leader thinking that a leader who's running a trillion dollar organization or, or a manager who manages a portfolio, right? Or a mom or a husband or a fiance or whoever the person is that we are all of value in this creation economy, creating for yourself and others. Creating a problem that solves something for you, hopefully solves problems for other people because we are connected in this way, right? The entanglement, quantum entanglement, or Ubuntu, or inter being by taking a hand, so whether we like it or not, or whether we know it or not, there is this innate connection that we all have.

So at the individual level, I'm Roger, what can I create? Consciousness, knowledge, information, that shifts people within systems and paradigms. I'm Learner, what can I create? Empathy, mindfulness, self actualization, right? Because this is all influenced by the things that influence how I came up. Uh, whoever you are, if you're asking this question, what can I create in the context of this organization I work in?

But often our own programming and trauma gets in the way, in the form of limiting self beliefs and excuses. And because we've been told we're small or insignificant, so we believe it. But with the sophisticated, we act like, oh, there are real reasons why I can't do it because I just had a child or I don't have enough money or I'm not smart enough.

But this is a time for creation. That's the story, the surroundings that we all can create as an employee, as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as a human. And that creation, if it makes something better for you, means it may make something better for other humans like you as well. And if one is operating from that perspective of contributing and improving and adding, then one is relevant.

Roger: It made me think about where we're now collaborating with technology instead of other individuals to be able to produce something. And it made me think about a prompt is just a question. And when we're collaborating with others, and especially in the work that you and I do when we're coaching others, the collaboration comes in the form of questions. And so there's something powerful about, you know, being a creator and being able to ask the right questions. 

Nana: Absolutely. What you're talking about is the implicit side of things. So there's, there's the explicit, which is obvious and, and right there, but the implicit side takes some skill, you see, but it's all about knowing how to think and how to organize thoughts.

So similarly, if you go to grad school, even in college, you've taught this, but it's refined in grad school, right? If you're writing a thesis or a dissertation, what's your hypothesis? What's your conceptual framework? What's the proof? What's the counterproof? What's your evidence? What's your conclusion?

And what's the, what are the implications for future research? You see, it's very organized. So your thinking cannot be assailed because you've considered all the contingencies. And I think the same is applicable now for working in this current context. When you talk about intuitive understanding. So intuitive understanding, you become more intuitive the more you've allowed yourself to realize That one is always a learner, because if one is always a learner, one is always learning and one is always a learner and always learning.

The much, how much, you know, the more, you know, the more you realize you don't know. So the more you want to know, therefore, the more, you know, then the more you realize you don't know. So the pool of references, skills, capabilities expand significantly because you can organize your thoughts methodology in the methodology that makes sense because everything can be reduced into three steps or five steps or seven steps, for example.

So all you have to do is how to organize it, then. The pedagogy of knowledge is reduced to its component parts, so it's not as complicated. This is how to learn. And so one learns how to learn, and if one learns how to learn and implement what one has learned, the one is always on the cutting edge. But it's all about, can you learn, and are you in sync with the needs in the market?

Or your family or the organization or the group you're connected with, right? How do you, or how do you become a leader? I think in that way, it's always to be a learner. That's why I say leaders are readers, right? Our readers are leaders. So the more one learns, you know, the more one can connect more dots because one's bounded rationality increases significantly.

But the more one knows, regardless of the field of expertise, the more of value one can be. But knowledge is a habit. The desire for knowledge is a habit. 

Roger: One of the things I found to be, um, implicit, inherent in what you were just saying is as, you know, to be, to be a learner, to be a leader. Um, is asking questions, um, but the context in which you're asking those questions, the environment is really important because as you mentioned, the quantum, how things are constantly bouncing off each other.

And so one of those simple frameworks might work in one context or one environment, and it's not going to work in another. So you have to have the connection between not only your own. knowledge, your own questions and your ability to connect what you're learning to what you already know, but then your ability to also scan the environment and understand, okay, what's applicable here and what's not, and what do I know?

And what do I not know? Because that's going to be where your, your most effective questions and inquiries going to be. And does that sound about right? It sounds right. Because the 

Nana: more you, You build a relationship with your intuition and the more you build a relationship with, with, with tactile knowledge, the more potent and the more effective it becomes with some mistakes, right?

So intuition will become second place and the way, as you pointed out to, how do I understand? That this context works well here and doesn't work well there, right? Or works well here, but is completely irrelevant to this context. And a lot of that comes from making mistakes and learning from those mistakes.

Because those are inevitable. But the mistakes become a point of wisdom. So mistakes are actually good.

Mistakes are actually good because it's an information source on what works and doesn't work and why. So one becomes smarter. So this notion of fail fast and fail often, because the more you're failing, the more you're learning. It's practice. It's all practice. Everything is practice. Even our bad habits are a result of practice.

Our blind spots are a result of unconscious practice. So intuition, becoming refined, is intuitive wisdom. Refines itself based on conscious practice. 

Roger: I am so grateful for the notion and the wisdom you just dropped on me as far as being able to recognize the sounds of ego versus intuition. I've never thought of it that way.And I think ego, ego talks with either false bravado or it screams. Um, whereas intuition probably comes in with a quiet confidence. That is so helpful. That that's, that's worth the price of admission just right there. 

Nana: We all have it. You have it. I have it everywhere. Whoever's watching this has it. You have it, you have it.

Roger: But, but we have it, but that just the discernment to be able to hear. The tone and tenor of the voice differently. That's the practice I'm going to start working on based on. Yeah, I love that. So Nana, you shared with me that you're a Buddhist and so as through this exploration I'm going through around joy, I'm very curious what the Buddhist does about joy.

Nana: All suffering comes from a place of ignorance. This is what the Buddha said. And the reason we suffer is because we. Want to avert pain, I'm using some Buddhist terminology here. We crave more pleasure and we're deluded into the nature of reality of existence. So in the Buddhist parlance, there's this notion of the word is Anicca, A N I C C A.

And this is in the language, in a language called Pali, which is the language in which the Buddha spoke. It was a language of the day in Northern India and parts of India at that time. And Anicca simply means. All things are impermanent. So, maybe in our chat I said something about thermodynamics and when everything is always moving.

So, a feature of the life we live and lead is everything is subject to change. At some point, you were the boy who was causing problems and your grandmother said, Roger, no. And now, you're the man and the leader who's imparting knowledge and changing the world. And at some point, it'll be something else, right?

So, the nature of reality is Everything changes. Everything moves. Yet we are programmed to have mindsets that want fixed things. If I'm happy today, I want to be happy tomorrow as well. And then how can I guarantee I'm happy also on Sunday? And then definitely on Monday. And then imagine when you start to think like that, that's what creates anxiety.

Because you're going against nature. So joy, to answer your question, comes from being in sync with nature. With the natural flow of things, it's just like the book written by floor by me. Kyle. I can't say his last name. I'm going to butcher it. I messed it up big time. 

Roger: On a previous episode, I was schooled on how to say it. 

Nana: That's it. Well, flow. What is flow about? Flow is applied to everything from neuroscience to science to business. It's about everything has a flow to it. Even the organization's function have a flow to it. If you want to disrupt it, you have to know the flow.

Life has a continuous flow to it. Morning, evening, morning after an evening, beginning, end. Everything has a beginning and an end. And it's our attachment to beginnings and the desire for beginnings that are feeling good to continue. Is what creates suffering in the modern mind, because the modern mind is afraid of seeing anything that's not pleasurable.

It increases fear because we're conditioned for pleasure. That's why we have all these challenges we have in modern society. But the Buddhist mind, or the enlightened mind, or the luminous mind, recognizes that even in a bad situation, it's a portal to a good situation. Because we live in a life of balance.

So, negative leads to positive. Poverty can lead to wealth. Sadness is a precondition for happiness. Darkness is a precondition for light to shine. The fixed mind will say, darkness, I don't want anything to do with that. This is really bad. But there cannot be any light, Raja, without darkness. So these polarities bring balance.

And the Buddhist mind that is luminous, or any mind, recognizes that these polarities exist for the purpose of balance. And there is joy in recognizing that. And being able to ride the waves. Equanimity, another Buddhist word, another Buddhist concept, an English word, but a Buddhist concept, equanimity meaning accepting things as they are, because in accepting things as they are, there is no resistance.

And when there's no resistance, there's no suffering, and when there's no suffering, there's clarity on wise action, not conditioned action or fear based action, wise action. So this is the concept of where joy comes from, which is accepting reality as it is. And in that acceptance, there is choice. And in that choice, because one is empowering oneself to be the creator, the chooser, Rather than the victim of, oh, this just happened, there is joy in that self efficacy.

Knowing that in every moment, there is a choice that can be made 

Roger: in these conversations I'm having with, about joy and the research that I'm doing. There seems to be, um, sometimes some confusion and or mixing of definitions between joy and happiness. How do you, uh, how do you separate the two? 

Nana: Yeah. So I think you're talking about the distinction between what's fleeting and what is sustainable and real.

So pleasure, or the so called pursuit of happiness, is in seeking moments that don't last. So, you have it, and then there's an addiction to get it again, because anything other than that is unsatisfactory. That's what leads to this kind of, um, this rat race, this acquisitive nature, this, uh, protectionist nature, mine, mine, mine.

Because that happiness is fleeting and for a moment, but joy is different. Joy is rooted in nothing but awareness. Not because I got the promotion. Well, I got that a hundred million dollar contract, right? Cause even two days later, we're off. And I think, well, when I get the hundred and 50 million, more, more, more, more.

Real joy is in. Seeing things as they are, and accepting it as they are, and in that acceptance, there's a recognition of your power and efficacy to choose differently, mentally and emotionally. And when one chooses differently, mentally and emotionally, then one begins to manifest differently. Because everything is magnetic, or the neuroscientists talk about confirmation bias.

This is going to be bad, this is going to be bad. My mind seeks the evidence it's going to be bad, and then it's bad. But even if it's bad, the Buddhists might always say, well, okay. It happened. What does this mean? What can I take away from it? What's the opportunity here? It's horrible. There's nothing I can do.

And then in that there is wisdom because you're the reason we suffer is because everything bad that happens to us is actually a chemical reaction.

So there's cortisol and all these things in our bodies. I say this is bad. So we have to play the same chemical game to have more dopamine, which is saying this is challenging, but what's my efficacy here? And in that one shifts from being a victim to a victor mindset. And that's where joy comes in. Joy comes from realizing that whatever happens, I am not that.

My awareness is superposed to the phenomena that's bad or good. That what's bad and good is simply another phenomenon that rises and falls Because the constant here is my awareness That the awareness is constant and everything is just passing They're just waves like like clouds in the sky 

Roger: Well, I want to tap into your wisdom on another topic.

Yes, and that's your superhero power of overcome yourself Tell me a little bit about that superhero power and what that means to you 

Nana: overcoming yourself simply means having self empathy It's just very hard to do because even the most empathetic person believes their empathy is driven by how much they give to Amnesty International or to the person on the streets who needs help or, or to their children or their family, or how much more they do at work for whoever, how much they volunteer.

And those things are all really fantastic, but empathy starts real, real empathy, not transactional empathy. Starts with the self, because when you're kind to yourself, you're now beginning the process of overcoming your conditioning. And very few of us are actually conditioned to be self loving all the time, because we have parents who didn't know that either, because they were conditioned to look externally, and then therefore their parents were the same way.

Which means their parents were the same way, which means their parents were the same. I mean, the National Institute of Health, and I often quote this, has a study that shows that trauma is passed on between 7 and 14 generations, right? So if you decide to break trauma, you're doing something that at least a thousand of your ancestors couldn't do.

That includes your two parents, your four grandparents, the eight before, the 16 before, the 32 before, the 64 before, the 128 before, the 256 before, the 500, the 12 before. That's a little over a thousand people in your direct lineage over four or five hundred years. That couldn't break a pattern like you.

Wherever you are is the sign to break, whether it's the pattern of divorce or poverty or not being successful or not being happy or being riddled with disease. Whatever the thing is, that's in the family. And when it continues because of mirror neurons, and it also continues because of epigenetics, right?

Epigenetics is passed in the DNA. So overcoming yourself starts with self compassion, which is to pour into your cup first. So what do I need? Why do I feel the way I do? And in doing that, you actually overcome all the unkindness that is a cause and condition of our modern life. And in doing so, you can extend compassion authentically if needed to another person, if you have the right boundaries to another person.

And it is in compassion between beings that makes us human. Compassion is, is, is what is needed. For all humanity, we are craving the most narcissistic or the most psychopathic people. One validation is a sort of a good feeling, even if it may be mentally perverse. So you realize that it's compassion to be seen, heard, and validated.

And the first person to do that for you, genuinely, is you. Unless you have or had a conscious parent or caregiver who would have done it for themselves so they could offer it to you. And it is from this point that you treat yourself in a way that is kind and caring, not abusive. So if you're compassionate to yourself, you don't do abusive, you don't go, Oh, you're silly, why'd you do that, Nana?

Or you're this, why? Or you're not good enough, so that's not gonna happen. These are all judgmental, self judgmental, come from self judgment. So the opposite is compassion, and in moving away from self judgment to compassion, one is overcoming one's programming, or any other programming that suggests that you're not as worthy as you are.

So you're not worthier than anyone, or less worthy than anyone, you just are worthy. And this is just about coming to that understanding without any qualification, that you don't have to qualify for worthiness, as the world tells us. So you find that in yourself. Then you don't have to worry about exclusion or ostracization, and then you can be a buffer for that happening to other people because you've given it to yourself.

And so this applies to any and everything. It's about overcoming one's conditioning. And we live in a conditioned world, and there's conditioning, good and bad. So here we're talking about no conditioning. So your only self can emerge, your true self can emerge. Which is. Very difficult to do because we're all conditions.

How do you move from the conditioned self to the unconditioned? That's what overcoming yourself. Even if you uncondition yourself just a bit is really what this is about. It's about reclaiming your true identity in a way, if it's possible for you, or, or a measure of your true identity. Cause not all of us can go on silent retreats and spend time in the Himalayas, but awakening is available to anyone who seeks it.

Roger: Understand. Oh, I love all of that. And it's, it's reminding me of so much of the wisdom that's been shared in these conversations before. It makes me think of Melissa Martinez Barroso, who I interviewed, uh, earlier this year. And we talked about, um, we talked about savoring and she was saying how, like, you know, you don't have to do anything to deserve the best things in life.

And it makes me think about the interview I did with Enrique Martin, who was talking about empathy and really talking about sympathy. Is having pity for others, whereas empathy is actually feeling with them and it starts as he would agree with you. It starts with you. Um, and so all this wisdom is just pouring through and and I'm able to pull on those conversations coming right back to this moment.

That's, um, very. Giving me a lot of joy. Um, and it, it, it makes me wonder like who or what inspired you to have this superhero power of overcoming yourself. 

Nana: Yes. It comes from, from actually looking at my own trauma from growing up. So it comes from a lot of suffering, suffering from family of origin or personal life or professional life, all kinds of suffering.

But then I realized that the suffering was a portal to understanding something. Because I'm the common denominator here, why does this keep happening? And it's in that uncovering that I realized and came to understand more about, you know, Who I am and how I'm made up as an empathetic person on empath and what that means and understanding that helped me understand my whole journey.

Cause you don't make sense of the journey when it's happening, you make sense of it in retrospect. So I saw the common themes and I realized that all that pain or trauma or suffering or challenges or obstacles were all initiation. For this understanding, and so it's the same way I would describe my experience that it came from a lot of pain, which is actually, um, inputs for transmutation, not punishments like, Oh, I'm a victim.

Look at that. But the inputs of the transportation, which is why I'm well positioned to do the work that I do for those who I do it with and also the opportunity to sit here with you. Is a net result of all that. So it's not for a place of kumbaya and everything being great. It's actually been initiated by great suffering, which is a common human experience for most of us.

We all suffer. No one is exempt from suffering. There are varying degrees of suffering, but suffering is suffering. And mine was the raw material for overcoming myself. Rather than stick with the story that I was handed by my trauma, justifying why I would be the way I was. Like, no, it can't be that. So overcoming yourself is overcoming the predictive story to inhabit in the place of a truer reflection of your internal self.

Roger: Was there a moment when you realized that these generational gifts of trauma and the trauma that you are experiencing and you wanted to, you wanted to make that shift? so much. You wanted to, you want to choose to do something positive with that, um, and turn this from, and, and, and ultimately overcome yourself.

Um, in that moment, what was the, was there a specific action that you took that was most impactful to help you? 

Nana: Meditation and yoga. Meditation especially. I've been fletching meditation for decades. But when I started to get very serious about it, when you meditate, it's you. The practice I do, Vipassana, is inside meditation.

It's just about you and your mind. No mantra, no music. It's just you being with what is. And so your conditioned mind becomes apparent. To, to you and the shame of the conditioned mind. I remember on a one retreat, I was, I was a 10 day retreat and I became aware of how conditioned my mind was to judgment.

Oh, look at her. What is she doing? Look at him. Oh gosh. What are they doing? Wow. This is incredible. This is, I just thought I was just sitting here and try to look at the number of judgments that poured out in one minute because all judgments of others is self judgment. It's a reflection of self loathing, right?

So I had to. What is it that's making me so conditioned to judge? Something that we do, humans do. And there's a difference between discernment and judgment. But why am I judging so much, this negative space of judgment? Because I feel judged. So then I, oh, that's what that is. So that's an example of overcoming oneself.

And that came from meditation. So did yoga. Yoga is about somatic release because it's often said that the body keeps score. So trauma is stored in the body. So whether that's working out or running or walking or going to nature or whatever one, if it's available to one, because not everybody's able bodied, right?

Um, so even if you're not able bodied, you can use your mind to imagine that you're doing that. Um, Neuroscience proves that you have a similar impact on your physical. So, somatic release, mindfulness, and but before those two comes a desire to not be sick and tired of being sick and tired. Why does this keep happening again and again and again and again?

You have to get tired of that and when you get tired of that. It's the portal. It brings you to this fork in the road. You take the road most traveled or least traveled. And most traveled is to remain with your conditions as it is because it's easier or least travels realizing. Oh goodness. I'm going to have to take this path of really working on myself and improving myself.

So that's the journey. 

Roger: So where and how does joy show up for you when you're using your superpower of overcome yourself? 

Nana: Joy shows up as a recognition of a transformation that has happened, and the humility that I was a mirror helping that to happen. And then I move on. That is joy. Not getting too attached to the phenomena, just acknowledging that I'm moving on.

Roger: I have this idea, this theory that joy is not only an outcome, but I also believe that joy can be a motivator to go into that space that, you know, I know I will be when I feel joy, I am closer to my potential. I'm closer to my purpose. Do you also find joy as a motivator? So I think if I'm hearing 

Nana: correctly, you may be talking about freedom or discipline or both.

All of these, that's what I heard. So I'll tell you what I reflect back my experience, you know, in the Buddhist tradition is this notion of when you get on this journey, two words, start, continue, start, continue. And if for some reason you drop off, begin again, begin again. So the more one practices. And then that's, that's part of the reprogramming and it takes discipline to be a practitioner because the unconscious distracted mind is undisciplined.

That's why it's distracted, but I'm here, I'm there, I'm there, but the disciplined mind is aware. It's here. Like I am with you right here. I'm looking at you. I'm right here. I know what time it is. I know what's going right here, but the undisciplined mind is not, it's in the past or the future. So the discipline mind, it takes discipline to remain in the present.

Most of us convene everyone to escape to the past or the future, so we're on our phones and doing all these things. But the present is where the discipline is. And in that discipline, the net results of your discipline work brings joy. Therefore begets more discipline, which brings joy. 

Roger: Nana, what do you know to be true about Overcome Yourself?

Nana: That it's available to all of us. If we desire it or when we desire it, if it's not everybody will, but when is the set to choose that when you do desire it, it's there for you. We are made to overcome ourselves, our conditions, as a leader, as an individual, as a family, as an organization, it's, it's a made to us.

Roger: What did you believe early on about overcome yourself to be true that you've come to learn is not true? You know, I thought, 

Nana: I thought circumstances were kind of, it was a saying in Arabic, matu, it's written. This is my personality, this is my destiny. At any point in time, you can shift the narrative by, you know, to quote Michael Pollan, by changing your mind.

So, if we want to become creators too, rather than supporting the creation of others, then we have to connect to what is true for us. What is true objectively? 

Roger: So nada what's next for you and your superpower? 

Nana: Well Still coaching. Uh, i'm creating a new course on overcoming narcissistic abuse So that should be launched and generated.

That'll be my third course more coaching more master classes and I can be found on all social media in a mileage whether it's tiktok or instagram or on youtube It's it's the same monica in a mileage or in a mileage. com. So just helping more folks Who want to be helped discover their truth so they can overcome themselves, whether they're business leaders or individuals or whoever, or a team or a family.

It's really about being an effective mirror so they can see what's there. So they can get past it or get through it because you can't avoid it, get through it so they can get to the other shore, the other side, where they want to be. 

Roger: The only way out is through it, huh? 

Nana: That's it. That's it. That's it.

Really. Really. Really. Really. Mmhmm. 

Roger: Oh, that is central to everything you've said. That is your superpower, right? Nana, thank you so much for everything you've shared. It is super meaningful for me. It's going to be meaningful for the audience. It's going to be an inspiration. And I think maybe a little bit of a challenge for us to look a little deeper in ourselves and see, okay, what's, what's the thing that, that We could work at overcoming and you know, what's the thing I can look at and overcoming.

I know I'm going to take on that, um, feeling inspired and a little challenge to do that because as, as we just said, the only way out is through. 

Nana: You said, you said it. And I want to thank you for Overcoming yourself, Roger, and, and being a conduit for information, for knowledge, for wisdom, particularly in this wisdom economy, this intuitive economy.

It's not just about working hard, it's about working intelligently and efficiently and smart. So this is the new paradigm and you are a leader in this new paradigm. Because we are in the era of leadership empathy. Not so much, like you said earlier, I used to be into the work, and now I'm into the people around the work, right?

So this is the, this is the pivot. So empathy and wisdom are not just fancy words that don't mean anything, because the nature of work, white collar work primarily, has shifted significantly that you don't need to be that old time overseer, right? So this is, this is the paradigm, and you're very, Much on the wave of this new paradigm.

So I, I celebrate you and I congratulate you for the good work that you're doing. And thanks for the opportunity to be here, to share with, with, with. Your audience and of course my audience has to be shared as well. So 

Roger: I am because you are Oh Nana and I know I am because you are for everything you've shared with me and and for our Like i'm grateful for the next conversation in the next conversation after that Thank you so much.

Have a beautiful day. 

Nana: Thank you to be continued.

Roger: Thank you all for being in this conversation with us. And thank you Nana for sharing what you know to be true about how we can all overcome ourselves and be more mindful and impactful in the moment. The question I'm asking myself after this conversation is, what am I going to learn about myself when I create more space for awareness?

What do you know to be true is a Three Blue Pens production. And I'm your host, Roger Kastner. We are recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people. Transcribed To discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose land you may be on, you can go to native lands. ca. M'kay.

Be well, my friends. Love you. Mean it.