Unveiling the power of curiosity | Intentional Curiosity with Kevin Jones

WDYKTBT 11 - Intentional Curiosity with Kevin Jones

Kevin: When I approach a relationship, I am curious about the other person. What makes them tick? What is important to them? But also, I'm curious about what I'm going to learn about someone else. And so when I go into a coaching relationship, one of the things that I do is, what am I going to learn today? What will the next 45 minutes to an hour teach me about this other person?

How can I invite them? into my curious space and open myself up to hear what they want to say. And what will be important for me to hear as I get to know them better.

Roger: Hi, this is Roger Kastner and welcome to the, what do you know to be true podcast. In these conversations, I talk with ordinary people about their extraordinary talent, their superhero power, and the meaningful impact it has on others. The goal is not to try to hack our way to a new talent, but instead to learn something about the way they think about their extraordinary talent so that we might discover something new about our superhero power.

This conversation is with Kevin Jones and it's about his superhero power of intentional curiosity. In this conversation, Kevin highlights three themes to his story, curiosity, transformation, and being in service of others. Now those three happen to be the underlying themes of this podcast series and curiosity, transformation, and being in service to others might also be the pathway to purpose.

Kevin shares how his journey back to curiosity led to his transformation and how curiosity informs his approach to his coaching practice, his new business, as well as his approach to life. If you're ready, let's dive in.

Hi, Kevin. Welcome to the pod. It's good to see you. Thank you so much, Roger. It's great to be here today. I really appreciate you having me on. Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm really excited to have this conversation. And like with many people I've talked to about their superhero powers, their journey to make an impact with others started with their personal relationship with their superhero power, developing it so that they could apply it for themselves to overcome a big challenge.

Um, and then Learn how to grow it and share it with others. So I'm, I'm really excited to hear how that's applicable to your story, but first let's get to know you a little bit better, please take a minute or two to share a little bit more about yourself. 

Kevin: Yeah. So, yeah, thank you. I, I am, I will say I am a retired corporate loyalist from Ernst and Young. Uh, it's coming up on a year now. I am now a um, a leadership coach And an author which is still funny to say I’ve had a book published my first book published in June of this year Opening the corporate closet. Thank you. Thank you. It's been a journey Um, but so excited about it.

I live here in Dallas with my husband, Simon, uh, partner in crime for 23 years and husband for seven and our crazy Boston Terriers, Pippa and Bertie, who have more Instagram followers than I do. 

Roger: Isn't that how life goes sometimes. So Kevin, you mentioned that you're an author, your book, opening the corporate closet.

Can you tell me a little bit more about the journey to writing that book and your experience behind that story?

Kevin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, like, like all of us in the pandemic, I was looking for something to do in my free time. Right. So why not write a book and a 

personal, very revealing book.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Why not? Cathartic, revealing. Perfect thing to do whenever you're alone with yourself and with your dogs and your husband and the house and nowhere else to go. Fair enough. Um, but you know, I started it. Yeah. End. I was noticing, you know, we get those emails and in corporate America, you get them announcement of a leadership change or somebody new coming in.

And it's a fairly formulaic email. By definition, we welcome Roger into the new role of sector leader, blah, blah, blah. He replaces so and so 2nd paragraph. And then the third paragraph is always the Roger is married with two children and to his wife of X number of years. And what I started to notice is there was really no one like me.

There was rarely, if ever, uh, Kevin is married to his husband of X number of years, or Kevin has been with his husband. And so I started thinking about that in terms of, my gosh, if that's my experience. What are other people's experiences like? What is corporate America like for people who are members of the LGBTQ community, who may not see people like themselves?

And that curiosity just started taking a life of its own. And I, the more homework I did, the more ideas I started writing down, the more I started developing this story. And then I started digging back to understand, well, how did my experiences become my experiences? So the first part of the book is really the didactic, uh, sort of the narrative around my own life experiences that got me to where I am in corporate America.

And that person that I brought into corporate America every day was based on those life experiences. So long winded way of answering your question. That's how the book started to form in April, May of 2020 and the journey to get it published in June of this year. 

Roger: We actually had a guest recently that was, um, talking about it's in the context of writing resumes and career narratives, but as a professional writer, she was sharing this idea of, you know, helping writers understand the relationship.

With their story with what they're writing. And it was, um, as someone who's written a little bit, uh, myself, I'd never really thought about my relationship with the, with what I'm writing, just thought about what I was writing and not the relationship there. And obviously your story you're, you're right there with our friend, Keelan about thinking about that relationship with your story.

Yeah, yeah. And the final 

Kevin: thing I would say on that is to that point, that's such a great point. It's often part of the writing journey when you become so connected to the story and you have that relationship. That's where it, at least for me, it can be super difficult in the editing phase when you send out.

Your copy for editing and you get this Ripped apart your heart has just been poured into this because you have such a relationship with it And so it was a great lesson in becoming a little thicker skinned about my story Without losing the relationship to it, but recognizing that part of that story is getting it out there and sharing it with others.

And when you put it out there for the universe, you allow others to react and respond and resonate as they see in their own lives. And so to be able to have that opportunity to let it go a little bit. Uh, as you're putting it out there was a, was a wonderful experience for me in terms of how do I develop and evolve this relationship with the story.

Roger: I would love to hear what or who inspired you, um, to have the superhero power of intentional curiosity. 

Kevin: I'm going to take us back several decades to my childhood. Don't worry, it won't take very long. But what inspired me was, as a child, and by my very nature, I'm an introvert. I observed, I listened.

I was so much happier when I was watching what other people were doing and asking questions of others and listening. And as I got older, and I think this is part of my journey, and I talk about this in the book, when I knew I was gay and growing up in Southeast Texas, that was not a great thing back in the early mid 70s, late 70s, tell you how old I am.

But the idea here is that I started to change my personality as a way of masking who I really was. And part of that masking was to come up with this alternative personality, this outgoing guy, this funny guy, the center of attention, the life of the party, student council, fraternity, the whole notion that I could have this alternative veneer of being this outgoing, popular person.

And that was all when I looked back on it, a way to kind of deflect from who this sensitive Quiet introverted person really was and so to answer your question with all of that background What inspired me was truly when I got into? ey and This whole idea of ey of bringing your full self to work and I will say They live it and they breathe it and I am retired.

I don't have to say this anymore. It is so true that EY encouraged that and the more I was around that and the more I realized that they really meant it, the layers started coming apart and coming off again until I was able. Through EY and through therapy, let me be clear. I was able to rediscover that person who I really was deep down.

And part of that was that natural curiosity that I had as a child and everybody has some degree of curiosity. What was important for me as I was rediscovering this and taking that inspiration from being your, bringing your true self to work, I was able to. Look back on my childhood and say, what was different about my curiosity was that I took this, even as a child, I took this approach of being very mindful of how my curiosity affected others.

And that's the intentional part of it. What am I, now I can articulate it better now than I could have as a seven year old, but the notion is the same, which is when I approach a relationship, I am curious about the other person. What makes them tick? What is important to them? But also, I'm curious about what I'm going to learn about someone else.

And so when I go into a coaching relationship, one of the things that I do is, what am I going to learn today? What will the next 45 minutes to an hour teach me about this other person? How can I invite them into my curious space and open myself up to hear what they want to say? And what will be important for me to hear as I get to know them better?

I wish I could have said it that way as a seven year old, but that's the core of how this all started That's the evolution and then EY is the what? uh in terms of inspiring me to get back to my my my true self and being able to leverage that in terms of Pulling out that intentional curiosity in my coaching relationships, but also in my relationships and all aspects of my life.

Roger: Love that. Love that story. Love that you were able to find an organization that allowed you. To be who you truly are and, and allow you to show up in your best self. And it's, it's always a little head scratching when organizations don't allow that because the research is clear. Um, to some extent, I, I wonder if.

You know, boards, uh, should be looking at the organizations they govern and be able to see, okay, we know where people are able to show up in their best self that leads to higher performing teams and higher performing teams lead to more profits, um, for organizations that don't allow people to show up in their true self, then, you know, you're, you're leaving money on the table.

That's not the reason why , you should do it, but it could be a motivating reason for boards to that, that govern them. Large organizations that don't allow people to show up, to be able to, to approach that. Yeah. Um, there's, there's a moral and a human reason to do it, but you know, yeah. Well, we live in a capitalist society.

Why not lean into 

Kevin: that? I think that is such an excellent point you make, Roger, because one of the other things, uh, and I, I talk about this in the book as well, you bring up boards. Um, when we look at boards across organizations in America, 0. 4 percent of them are, uh, identify as LGBTQ. 0. 4 percent of the members of boards and so what a wonderful opportunity to create more diversity at the board level so that those boards that are governing organizations where that diversity of thought is important, where we can generate more curiosity by diversity and teams.

Let's start at the boards as well. And set the example by having more diverse boards. I'll get off my soapbox there. I think it's such a great point though, because the best way that we can show those values are by living them from the top down within an organization. 

Roger: It kind of teleports me to just recently when I heard, um, someone talk about the idea that, you know, if you want to stand up for the dignity of all, You cannot deny the dignity of some who are engaged in denying the dignity of others.

So how can we approach this work? Um, and this is where we can be intentionally curious about, like, how can we approach this work with the people who need to be involved the most and treat them with the dignity we would hope they would treat everyone else with. I love that and 

Kevin: I think there can be so many different answers based on again on our own experiences, but I keep going back to empathy compassion as soon as we Start to judge others.

We lose that connection to empathy and compassion. We other them and So in my own life in my own journey as hard as it can be for certain groups of people You It's important for me to take the position that most people don't intentionally mean harm. Most people mean good. And I do believe that. I believe there are exceptions to that rule, but by and large, most of us, Do not wake up every day saying, what am I going to F up today?

And who am I going to mess with? And so this whole idea of exercising compassion and empathy goes a long way to at least, even if I disagree with you, even if I think what you're doing is harmful, How can I find a respect for you as a human being so that we can then identify some common ground? 

Roger: And I love, I love what you're saying, because I think in order to be, and tell me if I'm right on this one, in order to be truly curious about someone else, you have to bring a level of compassion, empathy, and not judgment to that conversation.

Do I, do I got that? That is spot on. That is spot 

Kevin: on. You can't, from my perspective, this is the Kevin Jones view of the world. You cannot have, if you don't have those things, you are eliminating or narrowing your scope of ability to be curious and to, and to, and I think even more importantly, to maintain curiosity.

Because often what can happen, especially in coaching, and you may have noticed this already as you're going through your own coaching journey, we can start curious, and then you say something to me, and I go, I don't know about that. There, right there, there's judgment creeping in. So there is the starting with curiosity and then maintaining curiosity throughout what is being said without resorting to judgment.

Roger: Yeah. So tell me, tell me, cause I, I, I do need to learn this. Uh, I have found in my coaching practice, um, as, as someone who loves to solve problems. And I think that's, I was sharing this with you earlier. I feel like I'm very curious in the space of problem solving. Um, but that's usually around a task or a group thing when it comes to individuals.

I, I probably need to grow in that area. And I think the, the coaching program I'm in is definitely going to help me with that. But I find myself in some of those coaching conversations, um, where. You know, I'm like, okay, I, I, I know the solution. Yeah. I know the solution. How, how can I start? And I, I, I might've done this recently.

I might've started leading the witness to try to get them to, to, uh, to the, the, the solution I wanted, um, And I think there's a form of judgment in there. Um, and, and a, a turning off of the curiosity and the turning on of wanting to be right, or wanting to be helpful, maybe might be a better way of saying that, what, what do you find to be, um, effective when you need, when you might have some of those similar pangs, or maybe earlier in your coaching, when, when you had fallen into that same trap that I just described, what were some of the things that you did to stay curious?

Kevin: I think the 1st thing that comes to mind, uh, is, uh, this is something I learned at Hudson where I went through my coaching program. Having that moment when you start to notice. Is this my, is this their agenda or is this my agenda? And just answering that question, uh, was such a powerful way for me to reset if I was starting to move into my own agenda.

The other thing that I, I find super helpful is, uh, if I start thinking, cause I, I think as consultants, we are, hired to solve problems. And so to shift from consultant mode to coaching mode also requires us to pull something back from consulting, which is what questions have I asked the client before I move into problem solving mode?

Am I ready to help them solve this problem together? Is my solution going to work for them? And so the, the second thing that I do, and I, I, I find I do this more and more is I will ask them, what solutions have you tried? 

Roger: Yeah, no, no, no. There's, there's, there's a little bit of like, okay, no, I, the. You just said, you just said the first three things I was going to suggest.

So let's not, let's not suggest that it's all look smarter by asking that question, which is probably isn't the right way to think about that one. 

Kevin: But I think to your point, I think the challenge there is we can know an answer and we can know a solution and it may work. I asked myself, and this is maybe the third thing I do.

Um, am I asking this question in the service of them? Does this help them get closer to finding the solution that works for them? Because it's like anything, right? If I If I tell you what I think you should do, you may go off and do it. If you come to a conclusion of what you think you should do on your own, you're more likely to not only do it, but sustain the change that comes about because you've embraced it at a more visceral level.

Roger: So I just need to put my solution back in my, in my, my cool little, um, messenger bag and help facilitate them. So I've, I've achieved that in consulting, um, in coaching again, I'm, I'm, I'm new to this journey, uh, just a few months into it, but I find myself like, You know, inching into the, to the front of the seat going, I know, I know what you need to do.

Um, and I need to learn to, to sit back in my chair and, you know, become to ask those questions of myself to notice that I'm beginning to, to get into, um, solutioning mode. And is this in the best service of my, Coachee versus is this in service of my ego? Um, or my, my desire to be helpful. Yeah. 

Kevin: And you said something there.

Uh, there's another term that I learned, um, in my own coaching. Journey, am I getting into their story and so am I listening to your story or have I now jumped into it? I like that so much. And the power of that is I, if I am curious about you and I want to hear your story as soon as I insert myself into it by giving my opinion, I've changed the story.

I've changed the energy. Now, I'm part of the narrative. And how can I be part of the narrative and be curious at the same time? I can only do that if I'm listening to your pure story and where you want to take it. Without my interference, without my interjection. 

Roger: So when you are able to, you know, show up with compassion and empathy, when you're able to stay in curiosity for someone else, what's the impact that, uh, that your talent of intentional curiosity.

Kevin: I'm going to, I'm going to tell you, I'm going to answer that, um, but I'm also going to tell you the impact that it has on me first, because this is what I think is the value in this, um, in terms of how we approach it. The value to me is that it takes us places that we may never have gone. If I had thought my answer.

So the journey, this like winding path, it takes you into so many beautiful places you couldn't have possibly imagined. I think for the individual, I hope for the individual, as I'm in the service of them, is that it unlocks new ways of thinking about a challenge. We often talk about your mere presence in the coaching relationship is an intervention.

And what I find more often than not is when I am in this coaching relationship, the individual just by me asking questions by making observations by connecting what they said 20 minutes ago to what they're saying now. It opens up new ways of seeing an issue, a problem, a relationship that they would not have thought about before because we're all on our own path until someone asks the question, someone makes the observation.

And so the value for them, I want to believe in what I have seen time and time again is just being able to break those thought patterns and create new ones. 

Roger: Yeah. And coaching will also, we'll talk about how people are creative, resourceful, and whole they can come up with the best solutions for them at that time.

Um, And I want to embrace that, uh, obviously in those moments when I'm coming up with my own solutions and trying to interject them, I'm not living into that value, um, but I, but I, I do believe it logically. Um, and I'm, uh, a good friend of, uh, of mine of ours, actually, um, Uh, from EY, um, told me early on before I, I joined the coaching program that, uh, the biggest benefit that he had, um, going through coaching was what he learned about himself and how to self regulate and be radically present for our coaches.

And, and that's, that, that's what was the tipping point for me hearing that. the growth that I'm going to go through, um, was something I was really, uh, really, it catapulted me into the program. Um, and I'm feeling it. I love that, Roger. And I love the, 

Kevin: the radically present notion. I mean, I think it's the other side of the coin of intentional curiosity, because to be radically present, uh, is not just about I'm here.

I'm in the moment. It is making sure that others know that and that they sense it and that you have created an environment where your presence invites Others to do the same thing And I I think about I use even just a basic example to your point about the journey that coaching takes you on in your Own life.

I have noticed When i'm out there in the real world kind of going back to what I was saying, uh about my own personality being more of an introvert uh at parties now Going out to social engagements. I don't feel exhausted at the end of the evening anymore because I don't feel like I have to perform anymore.

I get to go and ask questions of others. I get to take my curiosity and ask, and who, what better topic than to talk about yourself? And so people love when you ask them questions. I get to find out something. What am I going to learn about this person at this party that I didn't know before? I get to take that curiosity, get to know more.

I get to come home at the end of the evening and talk about all the things that I, I learned and found out about others, as opposed to how many people did I tell about myself. And there's something so wonderful about taking what you learn in coaching and being able to apply it to other areas of your life.

And in this case, it also has the added benefit of, I don't dread going out. To things anymore. I don't have that social anxiety because it's not about me anymore.

Roger: I, I have a good friend who was saying exactly this when she was young, also very introverted, um, and, and, you know, was, was afraid to go to school because of, um, some of those feelings of whether it was judgment or having to perform or whatnot. She got the advice from her mom of just ask people questions.

You know, just keep asking questions. And she said she still uses that today. Um, as when she finds herself in, in a, in a uncomfortable situation, she just starts asking questions. So it's almost like curiosity as a, as a, um, I want to say defense and I'm not sure if that's the right way I want to categorize it, but that's the word that comes to mind as a way of, of finding your own presence of finding your own, um, of calming your own, uh, anxiety.

If all you have to do is, is ask a question, it doesn't have to be a great question. When, when I get asked the question, like, so what do you do? Like, Oh, I'm an organizational development practitioner. Like, what, what does that mean? It's like, you know, the Bob's from office space. Well, instead of focusing on process, I focus on relationships like, Oh, Okay.

Well, nice to meet you, Bob. 

Kevin: Take care. Take care. Good to see you. Good to see you. I'm just going to go tonic. Thank you. Yeah, 

Roger: it's, it's, it's either, and often I, you know, jump into, I don't know if it's defensive mode, but in, in the movie office space, you know, the Bob's actually identify what the issue was and, and, you know, with, with that workplace, uh, so, you know, way to go, Bob.

So, Kevin, what do you know to be true about intentional curiosity? 

Kevin: What I know to be true about intentional curiosity is that it brings us closer together as human beings. It bridges the gaps of understanding each other. And it helps us be more vulnerable to each other as well as we look at each other with a desire to know more about them.

Roger: So what did you believe early on about intentional curiosity that you've come to learn is not true? 

Kevin: I used to think intentional curiosity was for people who were boring and didn't have anything to say. And I'm kind of, I'm kind of embarrassed to admit that, but it is, uh, I, I used to, because of my own experiences as an introvert as a child.

And. Coming up with this facade of this outgoing person, I disliked people like me. And so I thought they were actually kind of boring people. Well, what do you, you don't have anything to say? You know, you're not very entertaining. You're not very smart. You're not very funny. It was all about what are you doing externally?

And I only realized in maybe the last 15 years that, and I suppose some of that is, you know, with age comes wisdom. But I think for me, uh, what I realize not to be true is that the more you have to say, oftentimes the less people want to listen. And so with curiosity, the more I'm able to just stay in that curious mode, the more I'm able to get to know someone else.

And so what I thought was true was that these people were kind of whatever they didn't have anything to say, didn't have anything to offer it when really what they were doing and the value of what they were doing, they were opening themselves up to allow you. To share about more information about you.

And so the more I've learned that and the more I've been able to exercise that, the more it's just enriched my own life because it's not about me sharing information. It's not about me judging someone who's quiet and asking questions. So what a wonderful lesson for me to learn, but also what a wonderful way to re embrace my roots as someone who is quiet themselves and, and, you know, Understand and, uh, re engage in the value of sort of that quiet curiosity.

Roger: So if there was a listener, maybe named Roger, who wanted to practice more intentional curiosity, what, what, what, like one or two steps or, or things would you recommend? Hmm. Hmm. 

Kevin: Yeah. I think the first thing is, uh, and, uh, This is such a simple thing, but it is so hard to do in our busy days. Take, and I say three, and I'm very specific, about three minutes to just practice mindfulness.

I am amazed at the difference in quality. In my coaching, when I take that time to practice three minutes of mindfulness before the coaching session starts, lets me gather my own thoughts, lets me clear my thoughts at the same time, and it lets me be so aware of what my body is doing. And so all of that to say that That practicing curiosity and practicing mindful and intentional curiosity is about the brain, but it's also about the physical.

If there's anything physical that's distracting you, you're not able to be as effective in practicing that curiosity. And so the first thing I would say is give yourself the time in the day. We're all rushing from meeting to meeting, call to call. Give yourself that, that, those few minutes, those three minutes to be mindful.

I cannot tell you what a difference it makes. The other thing I would say is It's, and again, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a wonderfully simple question, which is how may I serve this person with my curiosity today? And I think the final thing I would say here is, and it goes back to the Maya Angelou quote that everyone knows, but I'm just going to say it.

I'm going to read it because I always get it wrong. At the end of the day, people won't remember what you said or did. They will remember how you made them feel. And so I think the final thing that, and I ask myself this quite often, how do I want someone to feel at the end of our conversation today 

Roger: That puts the intentional and inter intentional curiosity?

Kevin: Yes, absolutely. That's the difference in curiosity and then doing something very sort of deliberate and intentional with it. 

Roger: Well, Kevin, this has been such an uplifting, wonderful conversation. I'm kind of sad to bring it to an end, but that doesn't mean it's the only conversation we could have on this podcast, but it is time for the lightning round.

Are you ready? Okay. So fill in the blank. Intentional curiosity is. Intentional curiosity 

Kevin: is the fundamental nature of who we all are as human beings. 

Roger: Who in your life provides intentional curiosity for you? 

Kevin: My husband, Simon. 

Roger: Is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture, and renew your ability to practice intentional curiosity?

Kevin: There is, and it's, it's my faith. Um, I am Episcopalian, uh, not that the particulars matter, but my faith is very important to me, and recentering through my faith, uh, is a great way for me to refresh that intentional curiosity every day. 

Roger: Is there a book or movie that you recently watched or read that you would recommend that has interior intentional curiosity?

Kevin: Yes. Um, anybody who knows me will say, Kevin, stop recommending this book, but it is the second mountain by David Brooks. And I know many of your viewers will know who David Brooks is author. He's a journalist with the New York Times, the second mountain, and it is all about what we do when we have reached a point in our lives where we have.

The financial means the intellectual means the emotional means to do something more meaningful than just build our careers and make money. And one of the things that he talks about so much in there is how can we take all of that when we're not in a rush to prove ourselves to others and be in the service of others through.

Roger: So you, you mentioned joining EY and being able to show up as your full self, as being really impactful towards, um, your superhero power, having intentional curiosity. Um, this book seems like it's impactful there. Your faith seems like it's a contributing factor. Um, where. Did these come and was there a certain order, or did they sort of all were, you know, combining at the same times to help you dig into intentional curiosity?

Kevin: I love that. And I think there was definitely an order. Um, a rediscovering of my faith was probably the first, uh, I grew up, uh, Southern Baptist. Which for anybody out there who knows there's a huge difference and that's all i'm going to say There's a huge difference between southern baptist and episcopalian but that Rediscovering of my faith through what the episcopalians call the triad of scripture tradition and reason Really appealed to the intellectual in me and allowed me to take another look at my faith through a very different lens than I had grown up with um, and then after that Because that opened up so much more in terms of compassion and compassion for others, but also compassion for myself, uh, as a gay man specifically that allowed me then more to what I look at as concentric circles.

The scripture tradition and reason at the core of my faith then allowed me to start to extend that compassion to others. And then start, as I started to become more, started to become more compassionate with myself and with others, I was able to become more curious by nature because I was more interested in that person without, as Walt Whitman said, becoming judgmental.

I was able to be curious, not judgmental. So I think there was a pattern to that and sort of a, uh, a chronology, which although not maybe, uh, as, as direct as the way I'm laying it out, I think in the, in a big arc, the faith, the renewal of faith came first, and then the curiosity was able to grow from that.

Roger: Thank you for sharing that. That sounds really powerful. And what I, what I love about these conversations is that, you know, the, the superhero power that people have, um, at least I'm, I'm drawing connections here. They've, they'd learned or leaned into that superhero power to help them overcome their own.

Challenge. And then they've applied it, um, to other people as a way of connecting to greater meaning or greater purpose, which makes me think about, you know, the second mountain, I haven't read it, but I wonder if there's a part in there about finding purpose and finding, you know, meaning in what you can do and applying your special talents and the thing that the things that make us each unique and special, being able to apply that in service of other people.

Um, and that Is what creates meaning in our own lives. And I think as you talked about your faith, those pieces seem to be really interwoven together. Do I, do I have that spoton? 

Kevin: Uh, that is, that is, it's just perfectly said, Roger. Um, I, I really, I'd love to add more, but I'd ruin it.

So I love the way you said that. 

Roger: I doubt that. Uh, but, but, but thank you. I appreciate that. So Kevin, if a listener wanted to ask you a question or follow up with you, where would you point them to? 

Kevin: I would point them to a link. I'm going to call it's connectwithkev. com. C. O. N. N. E. C. T. W. I. T. H. K. E. V. dot com.

I would love to hear from you. That's a link to my calendar schedule. Um, and I would love to hear from you. You can also my website. I'm just going to be do a quick little pitch for my website. It's concilium coaching. L. L. C. dot com. That's a mouthful. But it's concilium. It's Latin. I'm a Latin geek. I took years of Latin.

It means collaborate, advise, work together, give good counsel. And so C O N S I L I U M coaching LLC. com. That's my website. You can find out more about me there too. 

Roger: And I'll, I'll put both links in the description. So everyone can, can see those. Um, I, I, I didn't know about connect with kev. com. And 

Kevin: nobody, nobody had it.

Roger: It was fantastic. I need to go get connect with right now. That's, uh, I'll be grabbing that URL. I love that. Um, well, well, Kevin, this, this has been so uplifting. This has been such, um, a renewal, a regenerative conversation around the importance of curiosity. Um, something I think we know, um, but you know, some of us do a little bit better at showing up, uh, with, and, um, you have given me some, some wonderful.

them and, um, support to think about how I can do that better as I'm becoming a coach, as I continue to do my work as I, um, connect with my kids with my wife. I mean, there's no boundaries. Um, Uh, for where I can apply this in all facets to my life. And I'm, I'm sure there are many listeners, um, who are also benefiting from this conversation as well.

So thank you so much for taking the time to share with us, uh, your superhero power of intentional curiosity. Thank 

Kevin: you, Roger. And what a, what a joy this was to spend time with you today. And thank you for having me on and for just such wonderful questions and wonderful conversation. I so appreciate it.

Roger: Hmm. I look forward to the next conversation. Take care. 

Kevin: Bye.

Roger: Okay. How was that for curiosity transformation and being in service of others? Love that conversation. A big thank you to Kevin for showing up with humility. With insights and yes, with this curiosity, the question I'm taking away from today's conversation is when I think about being in service of others, where can I be more curious about how and when I apply my superhero power?

Okay. If you liked this episode, please do me a favor, share the episode with one other person. And while you're at it, hit that subscribe button too. What do you know to be true is a three blue pens production. I'm your host, Roger Kastner. We are recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people.

To discover the ancestral lands of the Indigenous people whose land you are on, go to native-land.ca. 
 
 OK, be well, friends.