Discovering the Joy and Value of Silliness | Silliness with Marge Kastner

Transcript - Silliness with Marge Kastner

Marge: It's really important to use the humor wisely. If your boss is really angry with you, this is not the time to joke.

Roger: I feel like you're speaking to me right now, giving me some life lessons that maybe, maybe other people might appreciate. Okay, go on.

Marge: If you mess up, you can't tell a joke. You got to own up to it and correct it.

A little bit of silliness really helps to lubricate the social interaction and there is some game playing, you know, who's, who's the head chief in the office, who can tell who what to do kind of thing. And to negotiate your position vis a vis the other folks and to negotiate with them. That and a bowl of chocolate kisses on your workspace.

And a couple of action figures dancing around your screen kind of help. It sets the mood. We're not going to be so serious that it detracts from the progress we're trying to make. We're going to be serious enough to make progress. But we're going to do it with a smile.

Roger: Hi, I'm Roger Kastner and welcome to the, what do you know, to be true podcast. In these conversations, I talk with ordinary people about their extraordinary skill, their superhero power, and the meaningful impact it has on others. The goal is not to try to emulate or hack our way to a new talent. Instead, the intention is to learn more about their experience with their superhero power and their potential.

And in doing so, maybe we can learn something about the special talent in each of us that makes us unique. This conversation is with Marge Kastner, my mom, and it's about her superhero power of silliness. I took the opportunity of her 80th birthday party to ask her about her superhero power, and it was no surprise that her extraordinary talent, the silliness, what was surprising is how much thought she had put into the why, when, and how.

Of her superhero power from driving around in the eighties with a bumper sticker that said, I'd rather be mud wrestling to her recent passion for literally wrestling in the mud, removing trash in the marshlands near her home. My mom still embodies a deep belief in the value of silliness. If you're ready, let's dive in.

Hi mom. Welcome to the podcast.

Marge: Hi, honey. How are you doing?

Roger: Well, thank you. So what's important for us to know? About Marge Kastner.

Marge: I really want to enjoy life. I really love humor and I enjoyed making things and doing things. I'm very happy to be retired. I enjoyed my work. I loved it, and I really enjoy silliness.

Roger: I'm really excited to have this conversation for a couple reasons. One, it's your birthday. Happy birthday. 80.

Marge: Yeah.

Roger: You don't seem all of a sudden you don't seem happy about that.

Marge: Well, I'm not happy, I mean, 80 is old.

Roger: Whose voice is that?

Marge: Mine.

Roger: Yeah?

Marge: Yeah.

Roger: Is this something you've told yourself for a long time.

Marge: No, just about a year.

Roger: I have that feeling almost every year. There's that realization of, wow, this is an age. I told myself when I was younger. Felt old. Yeah. Do you feel old?

Marge: No. Hmm. I feel 17 still. It's really hard to be 17 in an 80 year old body.

Roger: So I have that to look forward to.

Yeah. I spoke to my mother in law on my 40th birthday.I spoke to you too, but I spoke to her and she had said it was around 40 that I started taking care of myself. I started eating well and exercising regularly. Um, And so I said, well, you just recently turned 60. What, you know, as something, you know, what, what did you, what do you tell yourself now?

And she says, every day I wake up, I thank the Lord that I'm alive. Yeah. Yeah. Does any of that resonate? Oh, sure.

Marge: I figure every, every day after 70 is a gift. And every day after 80 is a miracle

Roger: is the idea that every day is a gift. Is that new? No, I thought of it when I turned 70. Okay, but what about when you turn 60 or 50 or 40?

Marge: I still thought I was 17.

Roger: Yeah,

Marge: and I still have the energy to back that up. Okay. And now not so much, not as much. Well, we, we started, uh, walking around the bay instead of uphill, uh, at about 67, 68, maybe 70.

Roger: But there is some wind resistance around the bay.

Marge: Yeah, I know, but it's not up.

It's flat and then we saw the trash and it gave us a purpose. To justify walking off that land.

Roger: So tell us a little bit about that. What, what, when you say when you saw the trash, what, what do you do with the trash?

Marge: Goodness. So there was a lot of trash and we just started. Taking it out and then we met another couple that was doing the same thing and we joined forces with them and we got. On the nature reserve, and they were very, very pleased. Very happy that we were out there picking up trash. And the other couple were volunteers of the year 2014, and we were volunteers of the year 2015.

It was wonderful. It does get us out on public walkways, like around the airport and stuff, and people are thanking us. There's always somebody going by, and at least half of them say, wow.

Roger: Have you ever seen anyone throw away trash when you're out there picking up trash? Like, just dump stuff in the marsh.

Marge: No.

Roger: And on a typical day that you go out to pick up trash in the marsh, do you end up with more than a little shopping bag of, yeah, how many bags?

Marge: The average is some, it's about between 6 and 10 of the tall kitchen. 30 gallon trash bags. Uh, there are bigger bags, but they get too heavy.

Roger: Um, some of the trash is really, really small.

Marge: Yeah.

Roger: Because when I've been out there with you, sometimes I have my little grabber trying to grab the little tiny pieces of plastic and whatnot. And then there are other times the trash is really big. Yeah. Tell us about some of the big trash you go out and pull out of the marsh.

Marge: We, oh, we pulled, uh, pulled out the Venus de Vichi. There's this street called Vichi Street that leads to one of the areas we have, and it's, it's a, a torso that had a German beer, made costume on it, . And so we brought that back and, uh, a head that was covered with pink nylon tape and, and a hard hat. So that completed.

The statue, I took, I took the tape off and was very disappointed to find that the head had a beard, but that was fixed by wrapping the scarf around her. Now, she's sitting out by her bird feeder as a scarecrow.

Roger: You guys do pull out a lot of tires. Yeah. What's the largest number of tires you've pulled out in one afternoon?

Marge: 60.

Roger: Six zero?

Marge: Yeah.

Roger: So, you know, people pay a lot of money to go to the gym to move tires around. Yeah, you're out there in the marsh. It is. That's a lot of tires and these are usually full of mud and gunk and you're, you're getting your, your CrossFit.

Marge: Yeah, well, we decided not not to pull that many out anymore because we were, we were napping solidly for the next two or three days.

Roger: You might pull them pull a hammy

Marge: But that was back when we were in our sixties. We were younger then. Yeah. And maybe not as smart.

Roger: Absolutely. Wisdom comes with age. You have started making art. Out of the trash that you pull out. Tell us a little bit about that.

Marge: Well, I feel so sorry for the little things we find. I mean, here is a little, you know, a little Mickey Mouse trying to wave and it's lost its hand and its nose and its toe. And it was, you know, it was some child's beloved toy. You know, it's, it's ruined as long as thrown in the mud. So I. Pick them up and bring them home and Mickey is going to go into some arrangement. We found two Woodies.

Roger: From Toy Story?

Marge: From Toy Story. And the first one I found, I was still volunteering at the refuge. And, uh, they had a Christmas party. So I felt so happy that I could wrap Mickey up, uh, Woody up and, uh, And give them as a gift to there was one biologist, she collected the toys and she was so happy to get a woody and felt so good about that.

And a few weeks later, I found another woody. So he's here in our living room flying an airplane.

Roger: And you've actually taken some of the material that you found and created other art, like, some of the upcycled recycled artwork that you've created out of materials that you found in the marsh. What are some of those things?

Marge: Well, they're right. Here, I have Woody on an airplane trying to reach. Another Madonna, which sort of says this, what are the styles of women, you know, what are the challenges women face and what did the men challenges the men face.

Roger: You're missing the little explanatory cards that you see at museums that explain these things because when I see them, I'm not picking up on the cultural or social nuances of it.

What your pieces are trying to say. So I should be asking questions and not just assuming, oh, these are the toys you found out.

Marge: Well, you know, art is up to your own interpretation

Roger: In the past, you've done art for, um, contests that show up in the cemetery or county fair. Yeah, I've seen a lot of Afghans.

And you've entered a couple of recycled art contests.

Marge: Woody was entered. He didn't win anything.

Roger: Well, and I know a lot of the crocheting that you've done the way I remember it. And I could be remembering it incorrectly, but the Afghans, the other crochet work that you did, you were like, it seemed like you were bringing home blue ribbons every year

Marge: For a little while.

Roger: So you might've got spoiled by early success.

Marge: Some, some kind of ribbon usually. And that was fun. But, you know, COVID kind of put an end to all that. One of my presentations was, Why is there trash?

There was a environmental section to it and so it was. The problem was crash and why, and, you know, I think the home and garden page made it into that 1 along with.

Open trash containers. With their lids up. And a truck with a big plastic thing flying out of it. And it told the story of, you know, trash happens. And people come up to us and try to ask, What do you think is the cause of this? You know, do people just throw things? And I say, you know, we all lose a chip bag.

It is so easy to lose a napkin or a plastic cup. Things just blow around. I mean, they're looking for someone to blame that's not them. Sure. And mainly, you know, the homeless, no, people just drop things. If you look along the side of the freeway, along the side of the road, you see trash. And they can't keep up with it.

If it blows into the street sewer. It blows into the stream. We have many 6M people living in. The watershed for the bay. Trash happens.

Roger: That's a very empathetic way to look at it. Because I guess I could see pulling out tires and pulling out, you know, garbage bags full of trash and then coming home and then all the aches and pains that come with it and the longer naps than you wanted and maybe not getting things done.

There could be almost a little bitterness after a while, but that might it started out that way.

Marge: When we, when we first, oh my goodness, look at that, look at that, look at that, and then I said, look, this is taking the joy out of it. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be by the water. My favorite thing is walking along the shoreline.

Always have been. You know, we looked at the beach. We loved it. You know, to be upset about people that. flop their shit back for Pete's sake. You know, it happens. Yeah. And there, there is joy in picking it up. So why diminish that?

Roger: You have a lot of stories about humor and silliness and not taking everything so darn seriously, you know, from the days when you were working.

Yeah. What's, what's some of those stories that you can retell here about the silliness and the humor and the not taking things so seriously?

Marge: Well, it's really important. To use the humor wisely if your boss is really angry with you, this is not the time to joke.

Roger: I feel like you're speaking to me right now. Life lessons that maybe maybe other people might appreciate. Okay, go on.

Marge: If you mess up, you can't tell a joke. You got to own up to it and correct it. But a little bit of silliness really helps to lubricate.

The social interaction and there is some game playing, you know, who's, who's the head chief in the office, who can tell who what to do kind of thing and to negotiate your position vis a vis the other folks and to negotiate with that and a bowl of chocolate kisses on your workspace. And a couple of action figures dancing around your screen kind of help it sets the mood.

We're not going to be so serious that it detracts from the progress we're trying to make. We're going to be serious enough to make progress, but we're going to do it with a smile.

Roger: And I know you also did student advising.

Marge: Yeah.

Roger: In a similar role. Yeah. And this is a very serious prestigious school with students that try to live up to that seriousness and expectations

Marge: I had one student call me and my professor is going to give me an A minus. Should I drop the class?

Roger: You would share with me that you would give a certain type of advice to a lot of these students?

Marge: Well, what we were told is search for your dream. Your freshman year is your chance. To explore what you want to do with the rest of your life, choose wisely.

And one fellow said, I really enjoy doing, I'm announcing for the basketball game and I really enjoy that. My parents want me to be, you know, a doctor, but I really want to do it. This is your chance. You're not going to get another one, you know, as good. Yeah.

You don't have to be serious all the time.

Roger: So speaking of your superhero power is silliness Yeah, what or who inspired your superhero power of silliness?

Marge: And yeah, it was my father, you know him..

Roger: Big Duncan

Marge: He had a silly streak in him. That was just fantastic,

My mother, on the other hand, didn't have a funny bone in her body. I had this fancy bed as a child that had posts and, uh, pineapple Philly finials on top of it.

And so I dressed it up with sunglasses and a wig and a hat. And I said, look, mom, here's my new friend, Maria. And her reaction was, you're going to smash the wood. But one example of my father's humor. Was that he would like, if he went out, the fancier the restaurant, the better. And he would look down at the tablecloth, and go, Eww, what's that?

And he would scoop it up, and he would fling at it.

Roger: Yes. And we were required to pick it back up and fling it back. Yes.

Marge: And so I, I, I taught you guys that. Yes. And you just sort of had my mother's reaction, like, oh, people are walking . Well,

Roger: I mean, you know, I found 13. Yeah. Yeah. You're, well, you're embarrassed to be out in public with your parents,

Marge: Not with peas through straws.That was okay.

Roger: Rice spitting was okay when it was our own idea. Of course,

Marge: Spaghetti whirling. Yeah, but imaginary.

Roger: Yeah, well, we Yeah, I'm not saying we made the right decision. I'm just saying. So the silliness from your father and your father had very serious roles. Yes. I mean, as a pilot in the army and then for Pan Am and then training pilots and in World War two and then running a middle school.

Yeah, I'm sure military training is very important to get you ready for running. I can't imagine anything more challenging being the principal of a junior high school, right? So he had very serious roles and a very serious wife. But he had a very strong, silly streak. Yeah. And it sounds like you were, you had a silly streak in you from day one.

Yeah. It wasn't something that I think it's genetic. Yeah. Thank goodness, I got it. In addition to the flinging the imaginary gunk. Yeah. Yeah, nice reaction. What other things did your dad do that you just were tickled with?

Marge: Uh, Edward R. Murrow had a, a news program. Yeah. A talk program and it was on Tuesday night a couple of times.

On a Monday evening over dinner, my dad would say, when's Merle on tonight? My mother would answer, this is Monday, and he'd go, I mean, he really did make the mistake. He thought, yeah, but then it became a game. And the game was, which one of us, myself or my dad, could ask the question first? And it started out with me asking, right as we sat down, right as we started to eat, or right as we sat down, and he would ask.

And even earlier, and eventually it evolved to I, I made a sign that said, when is Merrill on tonight and I hung it on the garage door. So that when he opened up the door, the sign would drop down in front of me, and when I came in from hanging up the sign, and my mother said, you've got a telegram

and I went in and opened it up. And I said, and so I left the sign up anyway, and my dad apologized to me. Because that was really clever and he really enjoyed it. And I deserve to win that one. And he was sorry. He said the telegram

Roger: Big Duncan was always so lovely. And you inherited that from him as well.

Thank you. And that relationship just seems so darling in the seriousness of life and the seriousness of like the duty and the honor and the, um, you know, just everything that came with not only the professional roles that your dad had, but then also taking care of your mom because your mom needed to be taken care of.

Um, that yeah, showing up and, you know, taking care of the family and doing all those things that that seems very. That would, you would lean towards seriousness, but he always had that silliness that sure did that would come out. Yeah. Do you 1 of the questions I ask is around. Um, do you have a framework or a process for silliness?

No, it doesn't seem like it would lend itself to a process or a framework.

Marge: Something's. Well, like I said, you got to choose your silly times.

You know, you can't, you can't joke. When someone's hurting, when somebody's really mad, when something has really gone, you can wait till they have taken a deep breath and then poke them in the ribs, but not, you know, when things are serious, they're serious.

And yeah, humor helps lighten things up, but it has to be done at the right time. I mean, humor itself is a relaxation. I mean, when, when you show a, a jack in the box to a baby, the first reaction is startled, and then they realize everything is really okay, and they giggle like crazy. So, humor is recognizing the unexpected, feeling a little threatened by it, like, do I understand that pun, and then when you get it, laughing as a relief.

And that's a very, very useful tool when you're supporting five bosses.

Roger: We've talked on this, uh, on this podcast series about, you know, the evolutionary advantage of joy. And joy is different than laughter and humor. Um, But there is an element of vulnerability of chance of, you know, perhaps maybe making a joke or being silly and having it not be received.

Well, yeah, where that moment of that vulnerability of picking, you know, taking your shot and seeing if it works and if it doesn't work with someone like, okay, we'll register that for next time, but when it does work now, you've made a deeper connection with that person because you've taken that chance.

Marge: You know, I sort of wrote my mom off after that scratching the wood remark. Thank goodness. I mean.

Roger: What are you going to do with a problem like Maria? Yeah. What's the impact on you when your silliness has had a positive impact on someone else? Oh, it just encourages the heck out of me.

Marge: Heck, I didn't get a graduate degree in sociology, not to be able to define myself and define the situation and work with people. To try and understand where they're coming from. I usually manage to get away with it, but it sounds like it's. Um, it's not only.

Roger: We will talk about superhero powers being. that it's an extraordinary talent, but it's in the service of others. And I think a lot of time people will use humor or silliness, um, as almost a defense mechanism or just to, you know, maybe make life a little bit more pleasant for themselves.

You seem to be a little bit more strategic about it. Yeah, that you're actually trying to make something better for multiple people.

Marge: Well, or for toys are left in the mud. I mean, I don't know whether I should identify with toys that are left in the mud. Yeah, some people can be really cool humor can be bitter.

As long as people are happy and smiling or able to laugh at themselves. Humor is a really good tool. I don't know if it's a superpower, but it's a great tool.

Roger: So what is the relationship between your superhero power of silliness and your purpose?

Marge: I mean, I've got a great setup. I got a husband that I love dearly.

I've got wonderful kids like you. So My purpose is to provide joy without being noticed. I don't particularly want to be recognized. You know, I would love to provide things for people to look at and enjoy. It's enough that I enjoy them. I enjoy making crocheting, crocheting hats for gals going through chemo.

But I, I looked at the ones that they had and they just looked like horny hats. You know, I'm ill, I don't have any hair, I gotta wear something over my head. And so what I make is something with sparkle yarn, bright colors, it's sort of a bucket slouch hat, and put a big flower on the side with a glistening And that gives me, it gives me joy, but I think, yeah, it says, I'm me.

I'm happy. I'm going to get through this.

Roger: Yeah, bring a little, bring a little sparkle to someone who's going through something that's probably very scary.

Marge: I had a couple of friends that went through it and yeah, my, my husband Larry asked if I've ever seen anybody wearing them. Yeah. And I said, well, no. And just then I got a picture sent by a gal who I went to kindergarten with.

And I had encouraged her to crochet something for her state fair, or her county fair. And she had herself posed in front of this doily she had made. And I recognized the hat and yes, she had gone through chemo a couple years before, and it was the pattern. I remember I made it and I, yeah, okay, that's validation enough. And, you know, I didn't, I mean, she was posed in front of her crochet thing as a bread, so I didn't want to say, yeah, but the hat's mine, so, no, no, it's silent.

Roger: Why do you think that is? Why do you think you want to be not recognized in the public way for bringing joy? Joy is for its own sake.

Marge: If it gives me joy to make it, that's as selfish as I'm trying to be.

Willing to be. It would be nice to be famous. No, it wouldn't. It would be awful to be famous because then you have to answer to what, you know, you could get hooked into that persona and you couldn't roll in the mud trying to get a tire out because that would be, I don't know. I enjoy rolling in the mud by the way.

There is something about needing the acknowledgement. You know, that requires other people to acknowledge you. And so you're, you're kind of, you're, your joy is now dependent on other people.

Roger: And now you're creating your own joy.

Marge: Life's too short to wait for others to recognize you.

Roger: That is lovely. That's really interesting because my, one of my needs I have found is acknowledgement from others.

Wow. But to your point, You're not in control of that. You have to was that my point who gets acknowledgement for the anyway, one of us said that the acknowledgement is required on other people noticing and then saying something. I think there is something about the acknowledgement if it's required to get from other people, you're now putting your joy.

At risk of not being acknowledged, whereas the joy should, if it comes from within. Potentially that's a more sustainable source of joy, but it's also maybe more authentic.

Marge: I'm just embarrassed by things that come from that. I mean, I like the fact that I'm sorry. Sorry.

Roger: I'm just kind of shocked. Like, um, after, you know, 55 years of hanging out with you. Um, I didn't know you got embarrassed.

What does embarrass you? The flinger of imaginary gunk and fancy restaurants going out and, you know, getting in waist deep mud, pulling out tires and then going out to dinner like you don't, it doesn't seem like there's many things that do embarrass you.

And maybe that's maybe actually that's the benefit of if joy comes from within, maybe, you know, just like, you know, if joy comes from outside and you need that sense of acknowledgments for joy, maybe the embarrassment only comes from within and it's not what other people think, like, maybe you're immune.

To what other people think, and it's like you're just going off your own internal diagnostics.

Marge: Yeah, actually, what does embarrass me is when people express themselves,

Roger: even if it's positive, if someone's giving you good accolades. Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I must hate Facebook then.

Marge: Oh, no, no, that's different.

It's in person.

Roger: Yeah. Okay.

Marge: I, I'm actually kind of shy, except that I can turn it on if I have to, you know, I remember I was getting an award one time and. The speaker was, and I kept saying, yeah, but

that didn't turn out

Roger: right. They're rebutting the, uh, the, uh, the public accolades.

Marge: I sort of prefer to remain quiet. I do have some friends and they go out to lunch with them, but being on for an hour and a half is a little hard. And they can be me around you.

Roger: Are you trying to tell me that it's time to wrap up the podcast?

Marge: No, it's just me and you. I love you. I trust you.

Roger: Oh, I love you too.

Marge: Oh, good. I trust you and it's fine. You know, I know you're going to love me even if I do roll in the mud. But so far, so good.

Roger: Speaking of you were talking about how I might've had more of the reactions of your mother when you're doing the imaginary gunk, throwing, flicking and, and restaurants, um, there, there was, um, this is going back 40 years ago where, you know, You actually had a bumper sticker on your car that said, I'd rather be mud wrestling.

Marge: Yeah, that was very appropriate.

Roger: Um, well, that was definitely foreshadowing. You wrestling with tires and hoses and other things you pull out of the marsh.

Roger: Um, any interesting reactions as you were driving around with that bumper sticker on your car?

Marge: Well, I didn't go to a job interview because I interviewed me.

He seemed to like me and he, uh, he's, uh, you know, we can off, it was, you know, part time job. I just wanted to be home and do Cub Scouts or whatever. It's a part time job. And, and as I was walking out, he says, By the way, that car in the parking lot with the bumper sticker about mud wrestling, is that yours? And I said, yeah.

But you, you guys gave it to me. We, we were driving around and seeing cars that all had bumper stickers on it.

Roger: I'd rather be golfing or I'd rather be sailing.

Marge: Yeah, you know, bragging golf. And so we tried to come up with the most negative thing. And you guys came up, one of us came up with mud wrestling.

Roger: So I don't remember who came up with it. I thought it was you that came up with it. But, yeah, I love sort of, like, a little bit of, like, anti establishment, like, you know, definitely as a thumb in the eye of the I'd rather be golfing or sailing or riding my horse or, yeah, not to yuck other people's jumps.

Oh, why not?

Marge: Yeah, yeah. And so you gave it to me for my birthday and so I had to put it on the bumper.

Roger: So what do you know to be true about

Marge: silliness? It's a great way to get people to relax. It's a great way to get people to hear you. One of the things that people, especially if they're defensive, or they're trying to present something about themselves that they're worried you will not accept, it really relieves tension.

And if you can, If you are silly, then they don't, others don't feel they have to impress as much.

Roger: What have you come to learn that you used to believe is true about silliness? That's

Marge: not true anymore. I think I've kind of honed in the skill so that I don't run into obstacles very often. It requires some thinking so that you're not offensive.

Roger: I know you have helped me. Um, when at times when I've realized that I needed to have the stick removed out of my tailpipe.

Marge: well, I'm glad I, I, I helped and I certainly wanted to be helpful as a parent more by demonstration than by ruling

Roger: and I think I did a really good job well with at least 1 of us.

Marge: Yeah,

Roger: I think Tom's actually a little more silly than I am.

Marge: He, he can be.

Roger: Yeah, he hides it. I think, I think in his day job, he hides it pretty well.

Roger: Okay. Yeah. I'm more like, I might be, I might have got more of your mom's genes because there's times when I'm embarrassed by him when he's being a little silly in public.

Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah. So he's, he's definitely, well, right. Right. Those are the moments that I might be feeling embarrassment, but I'm also feeling the stick in my, you know, it's like, when Tom was learning how to drive, it was, okay, what are we going to go do when, like, let's go find something new to explore, and then there's a serendipity to a lot of those, those days, and we could end up, you know, in half moon Bay, or we could end up, you know, windsurfing someplace with, um, you know, Very little skill. And it was more wind slapping because the sale would knock our asses off the off the board.

Marge: Yeah, you guys are fun. I enjoyed being able to be home and  stuff. You guys were fun when we weren't fighting.

Roger: Yeah. In those rare moments when we weren't fighting. Yeah, love that.

Marge: That's growing up. I wish, you know, I've been an only child and I really missed the kids socialization period.

Because I didn't have brothers and sisters. I didn't, I wasn't allowed to go to slum, my mother was really strict. I wasn't allowed to go to slumber parties or even to spend the night with someone. And so, that was really restricting. I, you know, I wasn't allowed that. And then I went off to college, it was, okay, go to college, don't worry about it.

And I had a heck of a time my first semester. I had six different roommates. It Just couldn't get along with people my age until a miracle happened. I was adopted I was adopted by six young women that were finishing their high school senior year or taking their June freshman year At college. Okay, and they were in our dorm and they were silly and they accepted me.

They were the R. H. P. program and they formally adopted me as an R. H. P. J. G. for junior grade and my nickname is junior grade and what does R. H. P. stand for residents honor program. Okay. And they let me room with them and they did silly things like 1 girl really. Was enchanted by Lawrence of Arabia, the movie, and she wanted to replace scenes, another scene where you put out a candle with his fingers, and the person said, doesn't, didn't that hurt?

They said, of course, it hurts. The trick is not to mind it. And actually, if you take a mindfulness class, that's something they, they, they won't quote that, but they'll say. The more you resist pain, the greater you suffer. So we did that, and they challenged me, they said, we want you to go to the library and get the biggest book you can find.

And see if you can sneak it out past the jail. So I went there and I found a journal in the American Medical Association 1929 to 1932. It was big. Carried it out, no problem. Got it back. They were very proud. It's a good work. J. G. You're doing great. It was great. You found your group. Best of all, there were some young men in that group in another, and they introduced me to a few.

Roger: Sounds like trouble.

Marge: Ah, one of them was named Larry. And it was it was for me. It was love at first sight to go back a little bit in order to be selected for this program. You had to be genius level IQ, and you had to be a troublemaker. There's Larry genius troublemaker, and I loved it. That was that. I married him 60

Roger: years now.

That's lovely.

Marge: Yeah.

Roger: In 61 years, you've been laughing ever since? Yep.

It's this time of the conversation that I always. I get a little sad because it's about time to wrap it up.

Speaker 3: Okay,

Roger: but it's also a little fun because it's time for the lightning round. Are you ready? Okay, so fill in the blank. Silliness is joy who in your life provides silliness for you,

Marge: you guys and my husband and a couple friends can be pretty darn silly.

Roger: Is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture or renew? Your ability to help others with selling

Marge: rule. 1 of silliness is don't give into routines for Pete's sake. Don't follow the rules. Yeah, yeah, especially with Larry. And of course, Larry, I get the role in the mud and he's perfectly all right with that.

Speaker 3: The

Marge: thing I gained from the relationship is that he just allows me to be me. And it's fine for me to roll in the mud. It's fine for me to, you know, stomp and pick up trash and be

Roger: silly. Lovely. Is there a book or movie that you recently consumed that you would recommend that has silliness as a theme?

Marge: Uh, well, anything by Terry Pratchett goes back several years, but Thud is, is probably the number one silly book.

And

Roger: it's very good. Maybe they'll help me with that stick that we talked about earlier. What's one thing that gets in your way of washing dishes? The practicalities of life, there's nothing silly about what you have to get done, but I have a feeling you make them. Silly and are fun.

Speaker 4: Well, I haven't learned

Roger: to juggle glasses yet.

No, I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend that's a steep learning curve, especially with a tile floor in the kitchen.

Speaker 4: Yeah.

Roger: But maybe there's a reason why you've been going to plastic cups.

Marge: Yeah.

Roger: So you have tried juggling glasses. Well, mom, first foremost, happy birthday.

Marge: Thank you.

Roger: Thank you for being my mom. I'm glad to be.

And thank you for taking the time to have this conversation on such an important day. Yeah, this has been really lovely for me to get to know a little bit more about you. Yeah. To learn some of the sources and the, the reason why the silliness is strong in you. And yeah, maybe, maybe it's, uh, helped me with that, that stick I got from your mom.

Hereditary stick, metaphorical tailpipe. So thank you. Oh, you're

Marge: welcome. And I love you

Roger: very much. I love you too.

Marge: Oh, good.

Roger: Okay. Bye. Bye. Thanks. I don't know. Why are we saying goodbye when we're sitting right here? It makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense in the other podcasts when you know, we're virtual and we have to say goodbye, but here.

Marge: Yeah.

Roger: It's like high five.

Marge: Okay.

And that proves them. We're together.