How Intentional Parenting Leads to Workplace Equity | Strength of Parenthood with Claudia Timmermans

Transcripts

Claudia: Whenever you say, Oh, like the hardest job in the world, what you would think about naturally is about everything that you can learn, like from those experience, right? Like, both in the sense of personal growth and professional growth. But I think in the parenting space, it's, it's often not like seen as that, especially for, for women.

And I think for me personally, like this was really something that I couldn't really appreciate when I was. Uh, a new mom, um, during the global pandemic when there was no childcare and I was sitting home with a sick child trying to do like my work, uh, as well, taking care of my children. Um, it was really not that I was sitting there thinking like, oh my goodness, like, look at me, like, look at all these sick kids.

Strengths. I'm building this patience and resilience that I'm learning through this experience. I had was more like, Oh my goodness. Like, how am I going to ever like make this work? So it wasn't until I finally like left corporate America and looked in the rear view mirror and thought I'm like a different person now than I was five years ago.

Right. And like, the reason being is that like all these Things that I learned through, um, through being a parent.

Roger: Hi, I'm Roger Kastner and welcome to the, what do you know, to be true podcasts. In these conversations, I talk with ordinary people about their extraordinary skill, their superhero power, and the meaningful impact it has on others. The goal is not to try to emulate or hack our way to a new talent. Instead, the intention is to learn more about their experience with their superhero power.

And in doing so, maybe we could learn something about the special talent in each of us that makes us unique and also helps us find our path to purpose. This conversation is with Claudia Timmermans and her superhero power of the strength of parenthood. You've probably heard people talk about the polarities of parenthood, this incredible loving experience while, you know, Also being a struggle for survival.

And sometimes it's both of those things moment to moment, but we know in the workplace, the experience and capabilities one gets from parenthood is sometimes not just devalued, it's penalized. Claudia not only flips that thinking on its head, highlighting that those experiences and capabilities make for better, more capable employees.

She also makes the case that gender equity is critical. For higher performing organizations. However, she suggests that true gender equity won't come from new and different HR policies. It will come from someplace else. Claudia believes that gender equity starts at home. If you're ready. Let's dive in.

Hi, Claudia. Thank you for joining me today. It's wonderful to have you on the podcast.

Claudia: Hey, Roger. Thank you for having me on. I'm so excited to be here.

Roger: We've been having this conversation, I think, for a while now. In fact, last summer, you were one of the people that I was talking to that help inspired. This podcast, and you actually said the words, we should do a podcast.

So you, a lot of credit for this goes to you inspiring this whole idea. So I really appreciate all those conversations and I'm looking forward to this one as we get started. What would you like us to know about Claudia Timmermans?

Claudia: I loved having those conversations over the summer and I love what you've done, like with your podcast.

What I would like you to know about me is that, um, I'm a mom. Uh, of two very fearless Children, uh, five year old girl and a three year old boy. Um, and I've also become a leadership coach, um, really focusing on parents based on my experience with parenthood. Um, and it's just something that I'm like, incredibly passionate about.

Um, and I love. Love the work that I, that I get to do every day. We live in a Pacific Northwest is beautiful out here, as you know, but I also have pieces of my heart in the Netherlands where I'm from, um, as well as in New York city, which is my favorite city in the whole world.

Roger: Yeah, New York is such a wonderful place and it's amazing how many of these conversations there are, you know, um, a lot of our guests who have a part of their heart in New York and there's something beautiful about that place that just really resonates with with a lot of our guests.

And there is something really special about the Pacific Northwest. And of, of course, I think a lot of our guests are from the Pacific Northwest cause it's my little network that I'm talking with people. Um, but there is something really spare, uh, special and spiritual about this place. And I know this is where we chose to raise our kids.

Um, of all the options of places that we could have, there's something about, you know, The Pacific Northwest that just seemed like a lovely, a lovely environment to raise children, which, you know, makes me think about the idea you shared with me, that there's an incredible professional and personal growth that that's achieved through the transformational experience of being a parent.

And becoming a parent. Could you tell us more about that? And specifically tell us about the professional and personal growth that you experienced when you became a parent.

Claudia: I really think that parenting is the hardest job in the world. Like, whenever you say, Oh, like the hardest job in the world, what you would think about naturally is about, like, everything that you can learn, like, from those experience, right?

Like, both in the sense of personal growth and professional growth. Uh, but I think in the parenting space, it's, it's often not like seen as that, especially for. For women, it's this idea that everything needs to come natural. And I think there could be like so much more appreciation for all the hard work that parents are doing and really highlighting, like what type of, um, skills like you learn, like from doing this.

And I think for me personally, like this was really something that I couldn't really appreciate when I was. Uh, a new mom, um, during the global pandemic when there was no childcare and I was sitting home with a sick child trying to do like my work, uh, as well, taking care of my children. Um, it was really not that I was sitting there thinking like, Oh my goodness, like, look at me, like, look at all these sick kids.

Strengths I'm building, this patience and resilience that I'm learning through this experience, I was more like, oh my goodness, like, how am I gonna ever, like, make this work? So it wasn't until, like, I finally, like, left corporate America and looked in the rearview mirror and thought, Wow. Well, that was incredibly wild.

Um, like now let's like hit pause and look back and think about like, like what just like happened in these last five years. And that is when I realized like, wow, like I'm like a different person now than I was five years ago. Right. And like, the reason being is that like all these things that I learned through, um, through being a parent.

Roger: And you recently launched your company, Oletta, and I love the origin story behind it. So tell us about Oletta and what inspired you to launch it.

Claudia: As I was having these conversations with you, like, uh, last summer, uh, really thinking through like looking back in history and like kind of the, um, like how far we've come in terms of gender equity.

I was thinking about my own grandmother who's 104. Um, and when she, like, got married, like, she was no longer allowed to work. Um, and then kind of that evolution, right? Like, when my own parents, like, became parents and, um, my dad was sharing this story that he told his work that he was becoming a parent. Um, and then his boss said to him, like, well, that's great, but you won't see your child very much.

And then my mom, like, Nobody really expected her to return to work after she had a child versus like now my generation, right? Where, like, there is this idea that maybe, like, you can have it all, but it's still like, just such a struggle because there's just so much work still to be done. Like that's involved with being a parent and then also working like those are really Like two jobs and how do you combine those two?

And then I was also thinking about my own like children, right? What do I want the workforce to look like when they are entering the workforce like many years from now? And there's just still so many opportunities like for like improvement in that space. So that's how I found it A letter the original The origin story of that name is that it's basically a combination of the my daughter's first name, Olivia, and then also there was this woman in the Netherlands named Aletta Jacobs, and she was the first woman like in the Netherlands to, um, to go to college.

She was a doctor and she really fought for women's voting rights. Um, because there was this. While in the Netherlands where you couldn't, um. Vote if you didn't pay tax, but she was actually like a professional, like she was a doctor paying tax. So she said, well, I, um, can vote because I pay tax. It went all the way up to the Supreme court.

And they said, well, like, no, this is really not how it's intended. Like only men can vote. So I thought there was also an interesting connection with my background in originally I started my career in. Tax law. There's just a lot there and that inspired me to launch a letter. Um, and what we focus on is really helping, uh, parents like through that evolution of like becoming a parent and really making sure that you recognize these strengths.

early on, um, not like me, like five years in where I look back and think, wow, that was wild, but that you can really like have that appreciation, like as you're going through it. I mean, it's still going to be hard. It's still going to be a lot of work, but I think like we can just have so much appreciation like for ourselves and self compassion for like the work that we're doing and the children that we raise.

Roger: I love everything about that. And it, it makes me think of a couple of things. One, our friend, Bill Hefferman, who is our, our, our resilience guru that talks about people who have a lot of resilience, look at situations and instead of seeing them as zero, Challenges. They look at them at them as opportunities.

And what's your, what I'm picking up from you is looking at parenthood, not as a way of survival, although there's a lot of elements where it feels like survival, but what are the, what are the strengths and what are the, what are the new capabilities and what's the new level of confidence and experience and, and love that you Carry forth with and can bring into every aspect of your life, including your work life.

Claudia: Yeah, absolutely. You said that wonderfully. And, um, yeah, that's something that, um, that I think there's still, uh, could be a lot more appreciation for that aspect.

Roger: And I love what you're up to with your company. And from our previous discussions, and I've shared this with others and it really lights them up.

The focus of a letter, um, being that this idea around gender equity starting at, starting at home. And when I've shared that with other people, um, it's interesting. There's, there's, I've noticed a difference in how The genders respond to that idea, um, where, you know, when I mentioned, when I say gender equity starts at home, people who are female say, yes, whereas people who are male might be like, Hmm.

Yeah, I can see that. And there's, there's a little bit of, you know, maybe more of a realization that happens on one side more than the other. And, you know, I haven't done exhaustive studies on this, but in my own experience, I've, I've seen that. So can you share a little bit more about this thought that gender equity starts at home?

Claudia: The gender equity piece like starts at home. Like it's sometimes like very subtle, right? But like, what has been shown is that. Like, the gender equity often starts, like, during parental leave, when a woman takes parental leave and, like, takes care, like, of her child those first few months during that parental leave.

Um, that is where that, like, gender inequity shifts. Like starts to happen right? If you're, you're feeding your child, um, buying everything for the child, um, really starting to make these like childcare arrangements. If you are going back into the workforce, um, and this all just kind of just happens, maybe intentionally, maybe unintentionally.

Unintentionally, um, but but the fact is that that that shift happens, um, and then that typically carries through as the Children get older, like, as you know, like, obviously, and having older Children, like all the, like, activities that come with it, like schooling, uh, there's just so many tasks around, like, Parenting, you now are basically looking at, um, like an additional job on top of your real job and really like the biggest challenge or one of the biggest challenges in, um, parenting is just time.

Because at the end of the day, there's only 24 hours in your day, um, and in your partner's day as well. If you, like, have a partner and, um, there just is immediately this kind of conflict of, okay, Like what are we doing like with our time? Obviously everything that has to do with like raising your children like takes time like either Like time in your like mental like your mental space or actually physically like doing the tasks and I think that is where um, Where there's just such a a conflict.

Roger: I think a lot of the patterns that we Pick up. Um, and I'm speaking definitely from my own experience. A lot of the patterns we've picked up are what we, we saw modeled at home. And so we just subconsciously unconsciously fall into those same kind of patterns. And what I love about what you're proposing is an interruption.

A game changer of, Hey, let's be intentional about looking at, okay, what's the work that needs to be done and how do we divide that up in an equitable way as far as, you know, running the household, raising the family. doing our, our, our, you know, the, the work that pays the bills, let's look at this as an, from an equitable way.

And let's have those conversations before we get into those moments where it gets really challenging. You know, I wish I would have had that conversation. And I know my wife wishes we had that conversation 25 years ago. Um, Tying back to the idea you talked about, and we're going to go into a little bit more around the strength of parenthood, that being a parent and how it changes us and how it, how we learn, you know, new capabilities, how we stretch, how we grow, how maybe it increases our emotional intelligence and our ability to, you know, demonstrate care and affection for others that, you know, maybe Maybe I missed out on those growth opportunities because I wasn't leaning more in to being an equitable parent, um, with my wife.

Claudia: This is also like my idea with like a letter, like really, it's not about like men versus women. Um, I think it's really about like the Opportunity here that you only get to spend your time like once, right? And how are you going to spend that time? How are you going to value that time? And I just really want to highlight two of the books that really have inspired me with that.

And the first one is, uh, Career and Family by, um, Nobel Prize winner, Claudia Olden, who has done so much work in this space. And her book is really amazing looking, um, at career and family throughout the generations. Um, and really what she like. what she said, that the thing about time is, is, is like, this is like the biggest challenge, like this time component.

So I don't want to claim that I made this up. Like, this is, this is shown by this research, right? Like, like, what is holding back like gender. Like equity, it's really like how we divide that time. And then the second book I want to mention is a book called Fair Play by Eve Rotsky. And she has really, she has the Fair Play Policy Institute that really is about like this, like division of labor and how do you Uh, divide that into, um, like, not necessarily, like, equally, right, but, like, in a fair way, like, fair, she always says, like, fair doesn't always mean.

Um, it's also about what works, um, for like your specific situation as well and what are people comfortable with. But I think to your point where you're saying like, Oh, I wish like I have had those conversations 25 years ago, like with my wife. I think I would say like, I wish I also would have had these conversations like before having kids, because it just kind of like also happens naturally this shift.

And you may not like, think about it. Like, if I think about back about like, living in New York, like, me and my husband both working, like, there just wasn't. Like that much to do. Like we live in a tiny apartment in New York City. Um, like we work like every evening and there just wasn't like as much work to do.

But then once you have kids, there's just like a compounding of like work that needs to be done. Right. And as the kids get older, there's activities, there's all these things that need to be arranged for. Um, so there is just this, um, all this work and it just, Creeps up on you until you're maybe a few years in and you're looking back and you're like, well, okay, is this like equal?

And that conversation is much harder to have. Like, once you're like, in the thick of it, right? Like, as a parent, when you're just sleep deprived, um, like, you're like, both of you are just like, well, I didn't sleep. It's just this competition. Like, you wake up and it's like, well, I didn't sleep. Like, I also didn't sleep.

And, like, to have those conversations, like, at that point is just, um, harder than when you're, um, when you have that kind of proactively and really say, like, you're, Maybe pregnant or thinking about having a child, you know, like you look each other in the eye and you're like, Oh, my goodness. It's amazing.

We're going to be parents. Um, well, now let's sit down like while we're still maybe sleeping and really think through like, well, what is this actually? Going to to look like and then like things change like as your kids get older like your situation May change so it's like this constant ongoing dialogue and communication, right?

Like the communication is just so like important and key to have these Um, ongoing discussions and to fine tune and like iterate, et cetera. And like, just as you would do like in the workforce, when you're working on a project, I think that is just incredibly important.

Roger: And, you know, I sent us down this path of talking about the genders and there's plenty of families that don't have that makeup, it doesn't have to be.

A, you know, one gender or another gender. It's actually the more important part that I'm taking away from this is the intentional conversation before you get into the, the, the stressful situation that is parenthood of having these conversations. And I'm sure you would say it's not only that. And actually, you did just say this.

It's not just the conversation up front. It's not just the planning up front, but then once you're in that, those experiences, having the, creating the space, creating the container where you can go in and revisit those conversations and say, okay, you know, surprise, surprise, parenthood is totally different than what we thought it was going to be before we had kids.

Let's talk about what's working for you and what's working for me. And I love the second book you mentioned, Fair Play. When you introduce the word fairness, I think, I think a lot of people have just a natural reaction to, Oh yeah, of course I want things to be fair. Like I would want that for me. I want that for you.

It's, you know, a word like equitable feels kind of sterile. Whereas fair feels much more, I don't know, at least for me, it feels much more grounded towards closer to my heart where equitable feels more, more exists in my head.

Claudia: Yeah, like I said, like, if you're going through, like, your careers, uh, like, one career, like, may take precedent over somebody else's career, like, at a point in time, but it may only be a point in time, and that could, like, switch later on, right?

Like, if that's, like, how you approach it and have these conversations, then it's, like, well, What is fair, like, in this moment, like, for us, um, and maybe what is fair now is, like, not fair, like, five years from now, um, and I think that is just, like, this ongoing, like, communication to, um,

Roger: And, and again, it's, it's having those conversations and I wonder how many, how many parents have these intentional conversations.

I mean, maybe I'm, maybe I'm the a hole who never had that conversation with my, with my, my partner. Um, but, um, I haven't heard many parents talk about having these conversations. And I think if you're not, if you're not intentional, you're probably just falling into the patterns that you've seen witnessed before.

And that might not be how you actually want things to be.

Claudia: Yeah, and I think that's also why, like, they often say, like, well, nothing, like, prepares you for parenthood, right? Hands up in the air. It's like, well, I didn't know, like, what I could expect. And like, I totally, like, agree to an extent, like, that's absolutely true.

It is just, like, you can't really, like, imagine what it's like, but you can objectively look at, like, all the tasks. That's like come with being a parent. Um, because people have been raising kids like. As long as we can remember, right? Like, so it's not this, like, kind of, like, aha moment of, like, this list of things that need to be done, like, divided by age groups, like, still, like, how you're going to react, like, like, every child is different, like, yes, you cannot prepare for that, but, like, to say, like, you just kind of throw your hands up in the air and say, Oh, nothing can prepare you for this.

It's like, well, it's like being on a project, like a new project, right? In the workplace that you've never done before, but other people have and just kind of say, well, nothing can prepares for this. So we're just not going to. I think that's just, um, that's just kind of wild. Like, I've been in the workforce for like, over a decade.

I've never had anybody say like, well, Like, this is just going to be really hard. So let's just like, we don't know what we can expect. So we're just not going to prepare for this. Like, that's just not how you would approach that.

Roger: I I'm laughing at myself because I love this idea of I mean, there's two things going on here that are similar, the idea of what's the strength of parenthood that helps us be not only help us raise our family, but also the skills, capabilities, experience that we can take into our, our vocation, our work are the thing that pays the bills.

Um, and yet you were just using the example of the things that we do at work that we could also. Bring into parenthood. Um, and the part about me laughing about myself is I, um, Literally wrote a book about critical success factors and making a list of critical success factors for the things that make for successful projects Um, and the idea there is not the same list for every project.

It's Having conversations with people who work on this pro on this type of project, work in that environment, understand the constraints, understand what's been successful and what hasn't been in the past and having a conversation about that stuff. And it works really well in the office. Okay, I, I am the a hole.

I didn't take that same practice with my wife when we were having kids because, like, I could have talked to other parents about like, Hey, when, when you feel successful at this and maybe I'm sure people would be like, okay, I haven't been a successful parent, but like, Like even, even like flip it to the opposite, like what are the pitfalls?

And, you know, even if you don't know any other parents, there's always aunt Google that you could go ask, like what, you know, what makes for successful. Parenthood for adults who are in a parent relationship for yeah, the pitfalls of parenthood. And you could just start with that list.

Claudia: Yeah. I always think about like, as I was like kind of pregnant and thinking like through like, how am I like going to deliver my baby?

And like, what, what is she going to need? Et cetera. Like, I wish that I would have like fair play. Like, at that point in time, um, and have those conversations, like, at that point in time, also, rather than, like, preparing for birth, like, making sure I had all the diapers, uh, all these things, like, to really have those, like, conversations, right?

Like, well, but really, like, let's sit down and really think through, like, What is this going to look like for us?

Roger: I love that. I'm, I'm thinking about like the go bag we had in the trunk of the car for when it's time to go to the hospital, we already had the car seat. Like, you know, we went to the fire station to make sure we had the car seat installed properly.

And for like, we're, we're setting up for this event and that's all important. So, but we didn't talk about the next 20 years or even the next year. Um, yeah,

Claudia: if it makes you feel better, I don't think a lot of people will have these. Conversations up front. So

Roger: not yet.

Claudia: Not yet.

Roger: But I but I have a feeling you're gonna change that.

Claudia: I hope so.

Roger: Mm hmm So let's dive into your extraordinary talent of the strength of parenthood So you spoke a little bit about it earlier, but tell us Yeah What what or who inspired you to have this superhero power of the strength of parenthood

Claudia: for one really what you talked about? like Raising the next generation, like that is really like one of my biggest like inspirations, right?

Like, what is the future going to look like for them? Like, both for my son and my daughter, like, how can they thrive in the workforce specifically talking about like, well, what are these kind of strengths that you're really talking about in terms of. Parenthood, like I think one that we've already like briefly talked about is really that resilience piece, right?

That patience, where like you are often under a lot of stress, like as a parent, as you're in these situations where you are trying to keep your kids safe, or you might need to get them somewhere fast, or just a lot of like, situations where you really need to build that resilience. And like I said before, in these difficult moments, as I was going through this as a parent, in the pandemic, when you're at home with your sick child, and I had this situation where my kid was sick, and I had to speak up on a conference call.

And right at that moment, like my son just, Vomited all over my living room, and I just remember the people on the call being, Claudia, are you there? Like, are you there? And I just, I'm just literally, like, holding my son, like, like, in that moment, it's just incredibly hard. Um, but it also teaches you, you can do these hard things, and you build that, like, resilience, like, through these, experiences as a parent, like you, like your kids, like they hold up this, this mirror in front of you, right?

Like they are like tiny versions of yourself. And they have these like tendencies that like, you look at them and you're like, Hmm, Yeah, you're like my child. Um, and they're also incredibly honest. Like they also will tell you these things. I just remember this one time. I think any parent will like recognize like you're trying to get out of the house with your Children.

And like, it's just They want a snack and they want to go to the bathroom and they want to, um, like change their socks and they don't want to wear the shoes that, like, that they wore yesterday. Like, I remember this, I was trying, getting my kids out of the house, like, I finally get them into their car seats while they also, like, ran around the yard looking at some, like, things there.

Like, they're finally, like, in the car and I just remember taking a deep breath, like, Practicing my resilience and like I was just kind of mumbling something like, why are you not listening? And then my daughter, like five years old, she's like, well. You just have to speak up like, well, excuse me, but you're right, like, yes, I do need to speak up, I guess, like, I think in the workforce, sometimes people might get set to me like you have such a soft voice and also as an immigrant and I have an accent, like sometimes people don't understand what I'm saying.

So having my daughter kind of like, Say this back to me, like holding up this mirror. I'm like, yeah, like it's a valid point. Uh, when I do speak up, they still often don't listen, but, um, it is just funny how they just like hold up these little, little mirrors.

Roger: I think you've spoke to this a little bit earlier as well, but how do you define the strength of parenthood?

Claudia: It's really through these experiences, right? That you like learn these things. We talked about this before, right? Like how it translates like into like the workplace as well, especially for women, like when you become a. Like a parent, like there's still kind of this stigma of like, oh, well, like, is she still as ambitious as she used to be?

Like, can she do this? Um, and I think it's just like a missed opportunity, like, to look at it that way. Like, you can also look at it. Okay. Well, um, it's incredibly powerful. Um, and this person has now taken on this huge responsibility of like. Like raising the future generation and having this hardest job in the world.

And like, that has to come with skills that we're building, which it does. So, um, I think that's for me, like truly like the strength of parenthood.

Roger: What is the impact on you? When your superhero power has had a positive impact on others.

Claudia: It's really when I work, like, with my co cheese, right, to really see that, like, transformation, and really that appreciation, like, that self compassion of, Well, like you're doing it, like that is, um, and what are you learning like from that experience?

Um, I think that is just so powerful to see, um, when I'm working with coaching clients, but also, um, just in conversations like these. Um, to really have these, um, these conversations that like make you pause and think, and, um, maybe like act differently the next time around.

Roger: Kevin Jones, um, also a coach who was on this podcast, um, had this beautiful question that when he goes into conversations, he will ask himself, what am I going to learn?

In this next 45 minutes to an hour, and we know, we know in the brain, when you ask that question, you get out of the limbic system and into the prefrontal cortex. And, you know, okay, cool. We know that, but there's also an emotional side. When you ask that self that question, it feels like, I know for me, like all the, the tension and the fears and you know, the ego just kind of like starts dripping away.

And then there's, there's almost like a connection to values and purpose that pops up. That's a more joyful feeling that, okay. Curiosity could be the path to joy.

Claudia: Absolutely. Yeah. I think we always just need to stay. curious, like about like each other, um, like having these conversations.

Roger: So how is your superhero power of the strength of parenthood connected to your purpose?

Claudia: They're almost like one in the same. As I left corporate America and thought about, well, what is the next phase of my career going to look like? I really thought about, well, what am I learning here and what do I want like the future to look like and is that where I'm going to Um put my efforts and that really like is my purpose Like I want like to learn from the past and really like for that to like inspire like the future

Roger: So what do you know to be true?

About the strength of parenthood

Claudia: that it is very real and um that there could be more appreciation like for that Um, superpower,

Roger: there seems like there's, there's things we already do that help us that can be used to help us be better parents if we're intentional about it. And there's things that we could take from being intentional parents back to other parts of our lives.

What did you believe early on about the strength of parenthood that you come to learn to not be true?

Claudia: I think I also really like didn't think that you could prepare like beyond like giving birth and like, like you said, installing the car seat, et cetera. And, um, I think to me that's, um, No longer like true, like, if I could go back and do I don't I never want to look back at things with, like, regret, like, things happen for a reason and we can take that and, like, um, shape, like, our future experience, like, future experience based on what, like.

We learned from the past, but if there's 1 thing that I could go back and do is really to start these conversations early. I think both, like, in, um, like, my own personal relationships, but also, um, like, in the workplace. I think the way that we talk, also, um, there's still so much opportunity to, like, just speak about, um, parents and moms and dads, like, in a different light.

Roger: Parents, especially moms, pay a tax in the workplace. When everything you've spelled out so far. In this conversation and then the work you do says it's not a tax. It's actually a benefit. And the data tells us that more diverse teams outperform homogenous teams. Data tells us that women tend to be, have the characteristics of better leaders and actually perform better as leaders.

So that's the data. That's the head. What, what you're talking about is the work of really, you know, is really coming from the heart of being intentional and having conversations with your partner. And I think you're, I love the, the direction you're taking this. And I've been so impressed from when we first had the conversation about this, because I know you, you had talked about gender equity.

And, and that you wanted to do work in that area. And I'm like, okay, she's going to, you know, go, go like, you know, create ways of looking at, you know, what, how, how genders are paid different or in hiring decisions or promotion decisions. And then you, you corrected me really quickly and said, no, no, no, no, no.

Gender equity starts at home. And it just, it illuminated right before me of like, Oh yeah, that makes sense. And it

Claudia: might,

Roger: it might be a longer play, but it sure does seem like it's going to be more effective.

Claudia: Yes. Gender equity like starts at home, but there's also this component of like time. Uh, how do you spend your time?

And like, how is that time valued? Like both like in the home as well as like in the workplace, like how does your employer value like That time as well. And I think really like changing the narrative, like how we talk, I think, like you said, it's so the patriarchy, like, it's so deeply ingrained, right? Like, I just remember before I had kids, I had this conversation with a colleague, and she was telling me that she had, like, gone somewhere the night before.

And I said to her, like, Oh, like, it's your husband, like babysitting, like, and she quickly corrected me, right? Like, she's like, Yeah, you mean like he's just parenting and like in that moment, I'm like, all right, like, this is like, so like, deeply ingrained, like, in so many of his because like you said, like, we just kind of take, like, what we see to be.

Yeah. Um, like from prior generations and then like go from there and like what we see like informs like what we think like our expectations are like as parents, as moms, as dads, and those are still like different expectations.

Roger: So Claudia, what are you learning from this conversation?

Claudia: That I'm like incredibly passionate about, um, This topic and that it's, um, that I'm hoping that, like, whoever listens to this, even if it inspires 1 person to have that conversation, um, with with their partner with their employer, then, like, it's it's worth it for me.

Roger: And I'm learning from this conversation how this topic not only lights you up and the energy um that's elevated in you, but you were meant to do this work. And I'm really excited to see the impact that you have working with new parents and the impact that's going to have not only in their families, but the impact it's going to have in the workplace.

Claudia: Yeah, thank you so much, Roger. Like one of the things for me like that really like it was for me such a struggle whether to like stay in my job or go do something else and like one of the things was really that I wanted to be this like role model for my kids and show that like yeah you can do both.

Things like at the same time, and I wanted to show that to my daughter, but also my son. Um, so then when I didn't leave corporate America, um, before I kind of had decided like what was next for me, like, that was just something that I like struggled with, right? Like wanting to be that role model. Um, so a few weeks ago, um.

Like, I picked up my son from daycare and he had, like, spilled my tomato soup all over his shirt. Um, so his teacher had said, like, oh, hey, I'll give it to you, like, in a bag and then, like, your mom, like, can do the laundry. And then my son, like, corrected her and said, oh, no, like, both my parents do the laundry, like, Teamwork makes the dream work.

And, like, I'm like, Did he throw, like, a hashtag?

Roger: I'm

Claudia: just like, I'm like, wow. One, he's three, this is pretty cool. And two, like, I'm like, Um, even though I still mainly do the laundry, like somehow we're still role modeling that like teamwork makes the dream work. Um, so I just thought that was just really so funny.

And I said to, um, to my son's teacher, like, well, my work's done here. Yeah,

Roger: that does sound like a parenthood mic drop moment.

Claudia: Yeah,

Roger: that's awesome. Thank you for sharing. So Claudia, are you ready for the lightning round?

Claudia: I guess so.

Roger: Yeah. So fill in the blank. Let's pump it up. Fill in the blank. Okay. The strength of parenthood is

Claudia: all the skills that you learn, like through parenthood and like how you can apply those in like all aspects of your life.

Roger: Who in your life provides the strength of parenthood for you?

Claudia: My children. Um, but also I have to give my husband some credit too here. Like, um, really like the partnership, right? Like raising our children together.

Roger: So is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture, or renew your ability to use your strength of parenthood?

Claudia: I think one thing that really does. It's like in, in, in staying like kind of, um, calm through the parenting journey is like breathing exercises. Um, so that is something that's, um, that to really pause and think and take a, take a deep breath. Um, it's really like helpful to stay patient and resilient.

Roger: Is there one thing that gets in your way of the strength of parenthood?

Claudia: It's interesting because, like, if you, like, obviously asked me this question two years ago, what, like, got in my way was really, like, these, these, these narratives of, I can't do this, like, this is, like, just too hard. That also, I think, Like taught me looking back that these are like moments in time, um, and they ebb and flow.

Um, and now, uh, what's getting in my way is just like, parenthood is still a challenge. Like it's not like, it's, it's like every day, like there's challenges to it, right? And like, as your kids grow, there's new challenges, but I think, um, like really making sure that you, um, Tune into, like, your strengths, like, in these moments and know that.

You're learning, growing together with your children. Like, I think that really helps, uh, in making sure that you kind of tune out or like change these like inner narratives that we're telling ourselves.

Roger: So I'm, I'm curious about something you just said. You said two years ago, you, Had different ways of thinking about this.

And it reminds me of a Hemingway line where he talks about someone going broke and they say that they went broke gradually than suddenly. Um, and, and maybe that's the response here, but what, was there something that happened in between the last two years that has really changed and shaped how you think about your superhero power?

Was it something sudden or was it something gradual?

Claudia: Well, I think really like hitting pause on that career, right? And, um, like kind of taking a moment to really pause and reflect, um, and think about it, um, rationally, um, and really like letting go of some of these ideas of all the things that I should do, um, rather than like, well, what do I really want to do?

Um, and what kind of role model do I want to be, like, for my children? Um, and I think that has really been, like, that pause has just been, like, um, really important to, to, to reshape that thinking in that, in that respect.

Roger: Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. How important it is to take the bo the pause, you were just talking about how important breathing is in parenthood.

Mm-Hmm. . And that's, that's, you know, that's a short pause and sometimes the pause needs to be a little bit longer and a little bit more reflective and it sounds like that's what Mm-Hmm. what helped you.

Claudia: Yeah.

Roger: So what word or phrase describes what the strength of parenthood feels like when it's had a positive impact?

Claudia: Empowerment. where you just really feel empowered through what you're doing.

Roger: Yeah. Yeah. Living intentionally

Claudia: is

Roger: very generative. If a listener wanted to ask you a question or follow up with you, where do you want to point them to?

Claudia: Yeah. I would love to connect through LinkedIn. Like I love having these conversations and, um, yeah.

Um, I can be reached through LinkedIn and also my website, aletaleadership. com is where you can find more about me and my company as well.

Roger: And it's a gorgeous website. I know you put a lot of work into it. And you know, after seeing your website, I'm like, Hmm, I need to, I need to get to work on mine. Well, oh my goodness, Claudia, thank you so much for sharing with us the, the strength of parenthood and what it means you have, you continue.

To change my thinking when it comes to parenthood. And, you know, I'm not done. I, I still get to parent my kids and, uh, work with my partner as far as how we're parenting our kids, the parenthood doesn't mean that. Doesn't go away when, when they leave the house. So, um, it's still very instructive and very helpful.

So I am grateful and I am really excited for what the future holds for you and the impact you're going to have with so many. Families and the greater community in the world that you're going to impact. So thank you for sharing with us what you know to be true about the strength of parenthood. And thank you for the work you're doing.

I really appreciate it.

Claudia: Thank you, Roger. It was just really lovely to be on this podcast with you.

Roger: And thank you again for helping to inspire this whole podcast series.

Claudia: It was a great summer.

Roger: It sure was. Okay. Take care. Bye bye.

Claudia: All right. Bye. Bye.

Roger: I am very grateful for Claudia for sharing her story for sharing the goals of our company Aletta and for sharing her path to finding her purpose. I hope you all found this conversation to be as inspiring as I did.

And the question I'm asking myself now after this conversation is, what am I learning in this moment that I can be more intentional and thoughtful about?

And I think the answer will be around identifying the strengths that I bring to any challenging situation. And the strengths that I'm building as I grow through this challenging situation.

What Do You Know To Be True?  is a three blue pens production. And I'm your host, Roger Kastner. We're recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people to discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose land you may be on, you can go to https://native-land.ca

Okay. Be well, my friends.