I was curious about this so I asked my friend, Steve Smith.
Steve is a travel expert and tour guide and has spent almost 40 years with the Rick Steves travel company. He’s the author of the Rick Steves’ France travel guides which have sold more copies than all travel books combined. Steve spends a third of his time in France updating the guides and leading tours, and Steve also leads trips to Guatemala.
Yes, Steve knows a lot about travel.
So, I took my curiosity to Steve and asked him why we travel, and why he has spent most of his life inspiring others to experience the world.
And the answer might not be in a destination, or in a travel book.
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Recommended Next Videos to Watch:
- We’re Already Connected with Mark Meadows: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jyDUq5VP9E&list=PLbWfh34FP_dUcAaCrI31z00_fLdphi6b7&index=3
- Finding Radical Presence through Listening | The Art of Listening with Nicholas Whitaker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct3WRktOZx0&list=PLbWfh34FP_dUcAaCrI31z00_fLdphi6b7&index=13
- Creating Authentic Connections with Mike Geyer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-PpEgih-6M&list=PLbWfh34FP_dUcAaCrI31z00_fLdphi6b7&index=32
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Steve speaks fondly of his friend, Rick Steves.
Rick is the founder of Rick Steves’ Europe travel company, and they both speak of travel as a political act. Rick encourages travelers to get off the couch, get out of the tour bus, and immerse oneself into authentic experiences with locals through affordable travel. In a recent talk, Rick stated his goal is to get out of your comfort zone, increase your empathy with the other 96% of the world, and bring home the greatest of all souvenirs, a broader perspective.
In this episode, Steve answers the following questions:
- Why do we travel?
- Why is traveling important in life?
- How can we experience the world in a positive way?
- Why do I feel so alive when I travel?
My favorite quote from the episode: “But you can’t get that experience on your couch.”
What I know to be true about the episode: I was recently listening to the song “Rejoice” by U2 which part of the chorus is “I can’t change the world, but I can change the world in me.” This seems to be central to Steve’s message, maybe it should be the episode theme song.
What I learned from the episode: Aviation only accounts for 2% of greenhouse gases. I was surprised that number was that low, and Steve made me think differently about the opportunity costs of not travelling…plus still burning fossil fuels while staying home.
Resources mentioned in the episode:
- Rick Steves’ Europe travel company: https://www.ricksteves.com/
- Global Visionaries – youth leadership development organization: https://globalvisionaries.org/
- Experience Guatemala – annual trip to Guatemala: https://globalvisionaries.org/imprinttours/
- Rick Steves’ Hope and Hunger show: https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/video/tv-show/hunger-and-hope
- Book: “Blue Latitudes: Boldly Going Where Captain Cook Has Gone Before” by Tony Horwitz: https://bookshop.org/p/books/blue-latitudes-boldly-going-where-captain-cook-has-gone-before-tony-horwitz/12296348?ean=9780312422608
Chapters
0:00 Introduction and Welcome
5:19 Overcoming Barriers to Travel
9:05 Inspire to Experience with Curiosity
13:41 We Are Ambassadors for Our Country
15:53 Who Inspired Your Superpower
16:43 Meeting Rick Steves and Introducing France
27:54 Framework for Inspire to Experience
33:23 What it Feels Others Are Inspired to Experience
36:39 How is your Superpower Connected To Purpose
37:15 What Do You Know To Be True?
43:38 Lightning Round
56:32 Outtakes
Keywords
#Travel #ConsciousTravel #Experience #France #Guatemala
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Music in this episode by Ian Kastner.
"What Do You Know To Be True?" is a series of conversations where I speak with interesting people about their special talent or superhero power and the meaningful impact it has on others. The intention is to learn more about their experience with their superhero power, so that we can learn something about the special talent in each of us which allows us to connect more deeply with our purpose and achieve our potential.
For more info about the podcast or to check out more episodes, go to: https://www.youtube.com/@WDYKTBT?sub_confirmation=1
"What Do You Know To Be True?" is hosted by Roger Kastner, is a production of Three Blue Pens, and is recorded on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people. To discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose land you may be on, go to: https://native-land.ca/
TRANSCRIPTS How Travel Changes Us - Insights from Travel Expert Steve Smith
Roger: So why do we travel? Why do we stuff our belongings into suitcases, pack ourselves into cars or tiny metal cylinders and hurl ourselves across land and seas to visit people and places, mountains and beaches and art and architecture? Is it about the experience of another culture? Is it about soaking up the sun or hiking a trail or admiring a statue?
Is it to break bread with new and old friends or is it to glam up our Instagram feed?
Steve: One reason I like to travel is to go see what the other 96 percent of humanity is up to. We're 4 percent as Americans, right? And they are and how, what solutions they've come up with to common problems that we face.
Roger: I'm curious about this. So I asked my friend, Steve Smith, Steve is a travel expert. He's a tour guide and has spent almost 40 years with the Rick Steve's travel company. He also is authored. The Rick Steves, France travel books for those 40 years. Steve spends a third of his time in France, updating the travel books and leading tours.
And he also leads an annual trip to Guatemala. So yes, Steve knows travel. So I took my curiosity to Steve and asked him why we travel and why he has spent. Most of his life, inspiring others to experience the world. And the answer is not about the destination, nor is it about a piece of art. And it's definitely not going to show up in your Instagram feed.
Steve: When you come home from your trips, it's not going to be the Lou over the Eiffel tower. That is your memory. It's going to be somebody you met an experience that you had on the way. That is going to be what you remember most. I mean, you will remember the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower, and the views are great.
But what's going to really stay with you, it's the people you meet, right? But those little conversations is what I want to say. Can happen left and right. But they can't happen on your couch, Roger. Yes. Take your headphones off. Get up, get out.
Roger: Hi, I'm Roger Kastner and welcome to the What Do You Know To Be True podcast.
In these conversations, I talk with ordinary people about their extraordinary skill, their superpower, and the meaningful impact it has on others. The goal is not to try to emulate or hack our way to a new talent. Instead, the intention is to learn more about their experience with their superpower. And in doing so, they Maybe we can learn something about the special talent in each of us that drives us towards our potential.
If you're ready, Let's dive in.
Hi, Steve. It's great to see you. Thank you for joining me today. It's good to be with you,
Steve: Roger. I've been looking forward to this for quite a while.
Roger: Oh, me too. I'm excited for this conversation because there's no one I'd rather talk to about the power of traveling with. As a tour guide with the Rick Steves Company and a co author of many travel books, especially the France travel books for Rick Steves, for the last, I think you said, 38 years?
Yes. And someone who spends four to five months out of the year on the road, traveling and researching these books, you know, travel and you know, the benefit of travel and this is the superhero power that we're going to be talking about today of getting off the couch and being inspired to go in and experience things.
What would you like us to know about Steve Smith?
Steve: Ever since I was a child, I've sort of had a restlessness, I think. I grew up in Southern California, so the weather was conducive to always being outside, right? And outside I was all the time exploring the orange groves that used to exist in Orange County and the avocado orchards and being fascinated by nature.
Nature was a huge, has always been a huge driver for me, which is how I ended up in the Northwest. That was a choice, not by accident. And my, um, travels were inspired by two, uh, parents who were both educators. My dad was a professor in college and mom was a substitute teacher raising the kids, right? And so, um, The value of education, uh, propelled by travel because we on Fulbright scholarships lived in France, um, and French speaking countries when I was young.
And so that certainly, uh, mode from eight, eight years on, that was my first experience overseas. My travel. What I want to talk about with you in part in, uh, is, isn't just with Rick Steves into Europe, uh, it's personal travel and experience in the Northwest to Utah, uh, where my roots are, uh, nature, and also to Guatemala, which is an entirely different kind of travel, but still it involves going somewhere and participating in what you're looking at, the people you're meeting, and, um, and broadening my perspective.
That's huge to, to me, it's broadening my perspective. I just finished a few weeks in Hawaii with friends on two different islands. And even a vacation like that can be broadening, not just sitting in the sun. I'm, I'm a little bit restless to sit on the beach very long. But boy, did I learn a lot about Hawaiian culture.
The Bishop Museum in Oahu is phenomenal. Uh, and so these things that I think of more as vacations can also be, um, horizon broadening too.
Roger: I'm going to be a little bit of a crank here with the second question. And yes, you're welcome in advance. When I think about climate change and the carbon footprint associated with travel, the pain in the ass that air travel can be these days, plus the quality of those, you know, Travel documentaries on the big screen TV.
There's a significant emotional barrier or resistance to traveling these days, you know, when David Attenborough or Morgan Freeman and even like Eugene Levy can take me anywhere. And glorious 8K HD from the comfort of my own couch. Why, Steve Smith, would you say I need to pack up my three pairs of underwear, my three shirts, a sweater, and a pair of pants into my carry on and subject myself to overcrowded flights, long lines of customs, and pickpocket thieves, like the one that got your friend Rick the last summer, why, why would I do that?
Steve: Can't believe you knew that. First, we need to take climate change seriously. But we shouldn't flight shame at the same time, right? I mean, that, that's a serious issue and I agree. Climate change overall is something we should deal with in all parts of our lives. And I, and I think we should consider carefully our trips.
Um, and how we travel and how much we travel. I think that's wise. That said, aviation accounts for two and a half percent of global emissions. So putting it in perspective, that doesn't justify going anywhere anytime, but putting it in some perspective, I've often wondered and, you know, I'm not a scientist, but, you know, I'll go and people all the time.
I help people with trips if they go to Paris for, say, 2 weeks. Right. There's that flight involved, but how much would they have driven at home and contributed to pollution where they're not using public transit, et cetera. I have no idea. But, but there are ways. There's simple ways of offsetting it. Carbon offsets are effective.
And what we do at Rick Steves is recommend 30 bucks. Every flight you take overseas offsets your flight and carbon offsets. There are a variety of ways of doing it, whether it's planting trees or investing in other technologies that should almost be required. And it's not a. A heroic thing we're doing.
It's, it's just normal. We should be doing that. And so first, I love those shows. You're, you're mentioning, uh, Anthony Bourdain's too, you know? Wow. There, those are inspirational. Uh, by no means, uh, you know, we do TV shows are Rick Steves. I'm on, I'm gonna go do two more this fall, two or three more. Uh, I want people to watch those shows both to bring back good memories.
and to inspire future travels, maybe. And we know if not everybody can afford to go every year to Thailand or Guatemala or France, whatever, they can certainly get inspired through those excellent shows, but not at the expense of going. I wouldn't. By any means suggest that that's a replacement for in person experience and that's inspired from what I've learned from Ricketts.
It's about broadening your perspective to go in person, to meet people, to see your country through the lens of another country's people, to make those connections, those in person connections. It could be as simple as a waiter in a restaurant or a cafe that you go to every day and you sort of suddenly Uh, realize they speak more English than they let on, which is typical of the French.
Uh, and it could be something in Guatemala too, you know, that wow, I didn't realize how much went into making coffee that you can't get unless you're there in person. I think we have a responsibility to pay attention to climate change and also when we travel to do it thoughtfully. I'm glad you asked the question because I think that's very important and I do love those shows too.
Dang, I love those shows.
Roger: You mentioned the Anthony Bourdain, um, series and that, that feels so much more about travel than it does about food. Your superhero power that we're talking about today to inspire to experience, Is exactly sort of what his, what I, what I get out of his videos because they are about experiences.
And yes, food is a context, but for eating three or four days, three or four times a day, why not do that with other people from the places we are visiting to get a sense of what their life is? Cause that will broaden perspectives that will build bridges, um, that will give us a different sense of. You know, not only where we're at, but our place in the world.
Steve: It's as simple as thinking of Bourdain as doing a wine tasting somewhere. You know, obviously I, I, I have a lot of life in France. Conversations come up that have nothing to do about wine when you're with a vintner. And if you're wine tasting, they speak English. You know, you're not going to go into somewhere you don't understand a word they say.
But those little conversations is what I want to say can happen left and right. But they can't happen on your couch, Roger. Yes. Take your headphones off. Get off the couch, get out, turn off the TV and get outside. And
Roger: You know, as you were talking, I was thinking about one of the last wine tastings that I had. It's in Montepulciano and in the Tuscany area.
Yeah. And my wife and I go into a winery and we're, you know, tasting wines. We're talking to the owner. And I noticed there's a, a wood carved sign behind him and it has the numbers 1008, 2008. It took me a little while. I might've been, you know, might've had a couple of glasses of wine at this point, but it took me a little while and realize, Oh, those are years.
And so I asked the owner, like, has your family been here since 1008? And he goes, yes, I'm the 44th generation to live in this house. 44. Wow. Now, I'm, I'm fifth generation Californian. I actually, I have a grandfather who grew up on an avocado farm in Orange County. Like you and I have this connection, yeah, and, and to me it feels like, you know, five generations is a long time.
The idea of living in one, you know, having those deep roots. Is an experience is a way of life that is, you know, very, um, I'm going to use the word foreign and I don't mean to no pun intended. It's, it's, it's, it's something a little otherworldly to me to be able to consider that 44 generations of my family, of my lineage have roots in this, in this building, let alone this town or this, you know, state, this, this country. Um, that that's a little mind boggling.
Steve: I love that. And it reminds me that these wine tastings or whatever you're doing, having a coffee, uh, go with curiosity, right? Curiosity is a brilliant thing. Ask people questions. People love to talk about their winery, their Whatever that you're getting a right in their taxi.
Yeah. What with your uber driver? We're but having some curiosity and to ask questions about them and and they're there and if, you know, and that often leads to such kind of conversations where, wow, I had no idea.
Roger: It also reminds me, um, we had the fortune of staying at your place in France last summer. Um, and the conversation I had with your father.
Now, for those who don't know, Steve's dad, 98 year old, getting close to 99 now, I presume.
Steve: Yep. A few months away still, but yeah.
Roger: Bill, um, one afternoon, your father and I, I sat there and I got to learn about your uncle and your uncle's experiences in World War II. And I was able to follow along only because I've seen the miniseries Band of Brothers and realizing, you know, from what your, your dad is telling me is that your uncle was, was right there.
Steve: That was his life. Yeah. Band of Brothers. Yep.
Roger: I don't know if I get that story anywhere else. And Um, I, I think to your point about taking off the headphones, getting out of our phones and having conversations, um, we don't have to travel to do that. But is there something about traveling that either makes us more vulnerable or makes other people more vulnerable?
So we open up and have a different level of conversations than we do in our everyday life.
Steve: When we travel, we're ambassadors. If there's, I mean, if there's any country in the world that of which people have preconceived notions, it's Americans. Right? And by going in person and smiling, being nice and polite and, um, and not demanding, we, we do a great job of, um, changing percent.
perceptions and stereotypes, right? And, and loosening vulnerabilities of people. I've heard this many times, by the way, from my French, uh, we'll call them colleagues, business owners, that because of our books and the number of Americans they've met traveling, they're inspired to come visit us now. We're not such a, uh, a scary place.
In fact, we're very, in fact, the French love coming to the United States because of how nice Americans are. And now, now, because our coffee's good too, I remember in the old days, that diner coffee right before Starbucks, et cetera, was that, that, that was a deterrent for a while. Anyway, but that notion that as we travel, wherever we go, and again, even Hawaii, to be sensitive to Hawaiians experience, um, natives, um, that, that can go a long way to improving.
And it's a complicated world out there, Roger. It's a globalized world. One that is filled with, you know, one reason I like to travel is to go see what the other 96 percent of humanity is up to. We're 4 percent as Americans, right? And they're, and how, what solutions they've come up with to common problems that we face.
And to understand their struggles, for example, when, of countries that are developing like Guatemala, which you know well. Um, we, when I take my groups down there, um, we pick coffee beans. Right? And, and we pick for an hour, and then we realize, you know, and it's bend over, hard work, uh, do we get the right color?
Berry, this kind of thing's got to be red. And then we watch the roasting, the whole production process, because so many of those farms are small, and we experience it in a small farm. And we realize after an hour's worth, we've picked like a cup of coffee. One cup after an hour's worth of labor and you you get the sense they get paid two bucks a day this kind of thing You know, you just made 15 cents or whatever, but you can't get that experience from your couch, right?
Roger: So let's let's dive into that extraordinary talent. What or who inspired you to have this superhero power of inspire to experience
Steve: my parents my own curiosity, right and Rick Steves I mean, I have learned a lot from him. I like to say that for 40 years, I've been teaching him the art of French living while he taught me the science of guidebook writing and experiencing.
And together we have, it's been a successful partnership. And certainly he's just amazing. It's astonishing what he's accomplished. And he's inspirational, seriously. And somebody who still does, still makes me think. in ways that I hadn't thought of, let's just say. And, and I like that. I, I need to be, um, we all need to be made to think in ways we haven't thought of.
Yeah.
Roger: So tell us how you and Rick first met.
Steve: He was teaching, uh, a class in travel in the early eighties. And I, uh, I had been raised, so I spoke French fluently. I went to school when I was in third, fourth grade, and then back to seventh grade, this kind of thing, um, because my dad had a Fulbright scholarship, a lot of this, you know, as a result of World War Two to help rebuild Europe's economies and my parents, rather than sending me to the American school, the international school in English.
Wanted my sister to attend French schools. So suddenly I was a Catholic, a born Indian Catholic and attending a parochial school. So I had, I had, um, gained this knowledge and travel and understanding of France, at least, and, and traveled throughout Europe because dad and mom, with Europe on 5 a day, we traveled, if anybody remembers Arthur Frommer's books, great books.
But the guy Rick calls the godfather of guidebook, so I had come back and been working after leaving Southern California and graduate school in Seattle. And Rick was teaching at the, uh, experimental college. They called it after hours classes, and I listened to his talk about travel in Europe. And I went up to him afterwards and said, the great talk, Rick and, um.
And I think there's a hole in your knowledge and it's called France, because he kind of talked around the whole country. Really? It was clear. He he's German and Norwegian sort of comfort northern, but the, the, the France thing had sort of confused him. And so that started a friendship. Right there. And bit by bit, we started, so I was a civil engineer.
I was working for the, at Washington State Ferries at the time in the planning, managing the planning department. But bit by bit, we started doing summer trips. I'd take summer vacation and work with Rick. And bit by bit, we started working more and more together to the point where, wow, we have all these books and tours.
And when I first started, there were four of us who led tours. There's now 200, 220 guides and we take 40,000 people a year or something like that. We took a couple hundred at most when I was first starting with them. Uh, the guidebooks that we, that we produce, outsell, the whole competition combined. Now, uh, Rick is so, um, dominant.
Uh, the reason is we research in person and Rick is rigorous about that. So this very idea that I'm. actively, um, encouraging that you go experience directly, not from your couch, is what we have to do as researchers. We can't dial it in. And that's, that's one thing Rick is adamant about
Roger: when, when we went to that trip on, on Italy, we use the Italy book, um, and we ended up, um, you know, the experiences we had, whether it's with, uh, the, the, the Vinter, um, in the winery, or we're in Siena in a butcher shop.
And, um, You know letting them know that we were, you know, it was the rick steves Um paragraph about this this butcher shop that made us come in And the guy just sets us up with a beautiful spread not because we mentioned the book But because we were there and we wanted the sampler platter and we're there for about three hours and he had officially closed but then the neighborhood comes in and there's this huge conversation going on and it just it just felt like we were You Part of, um, that, that experience that, you know, a way of life.
And we had told them that we are going to be driving around Tuscany the next day. And they're like, come back in in the morning and we'll, we'll tell you where to go. I'm like, okay, this is going to be, this is going to be wonderful. So we come back, we're, you know, he said, come back at nine, come back at nine.
It's yep, they're closed. There's no no, you know light on it's there's no one there We go back to the hotel we pack up we're ready to go to the rental car place and we thought let's check back in And you know, the door was just barely cracked about 9 45. The door is barely cracked I I opened up and then You know, I asked, you know, is anyone here and the door Yeah, the guy comes out from the back big booming voice.
He grabs a relief map off the wall He puts it right down on the cut on the on the boards that he's going to be, you know Cutting meat with a little bit. He calls his brother out. He um gets out a magnifying glass and tells his brother to Start writing things down and the only thing they have to write down On is a as a paper as a paper bag So he starts telling them like and he's calling out names of cities You And he explains that, you know, there's, there's, you know, the roads aren't named, but when you come to a fork in the road, you go to Florence or Rome.
And so he's just calling out these cities. And, um, I asked him when he was done, I'm like, really, you know, telling him how much I appreciate, can we buy like a picnic lunch? He goes, no, no, no, you're going to want to, you're going to want to eat on the road. Just go. And I'm like, well, do you, do you have a place you want us to go?
And he goes, it's all going to be good. And sure enough, we went driving through the hills of Tuscany that afternoon, um, had one of the best meals of my life on the road at a little restaurant. Like, yeah, that, that was also a cooking school. Um, and so we got invited to sit with the whole class. and eat the meal that they just prepared.
And then we drive and we go to Montepulciano and have that experience with the, the, the, the Vintner who'd been in that house for 44 generations. And just this amazing experience that you don't get when you watch those travel shows, you don't get it yourself for sure. Um, and it was all because of being willing to ask questions and then interact and, and really, you know, create, be part of that co creation experience.
It was beautiful.
Steve: I love that story. Yeah, Italians are so much fun. I mean, it is funny how those stereotypes, there's a certain amount of truth to the, you know, the Germans, this French, the Italians, and that you're, you're speaking to, I, we used to do a trivia question on our tours. And one of the questions was, how do you say yes, sir, right away, sir, in Italian?
And the answer is that phrase doesn't exist. Because they're having fun with you, because you open that door the first time. No, but if you're patient, if you slow down, and you're patient, and you don't go, I mean, this is the big mistake I made. The other thing I, I, I can tee off what you just said is, is to slow, when I do cultural talks, it's about slowing down in France, certainly in France.
It works in Switzerland and Germany, but in Italy, Southern Spain and France, that it's been going in at American speed and except expecting things to happen at your pace, you know, boom, boom, boom. That's, that's a recipe for mistakes and disaster. Uh, in which I made those mistakes, renovating that house that you were visiting.
We did, we tried to do it on an American schedule, uh, thinking that, and even in the States, the work doesn't get done on time. You know, so what was I thinking? And now we're doing the renovation. You need to come back and taking our time. And that's kind of a, you know, sort of metaphor for also travel to take your time with people.
They really appreciate it when you slow down, right. And, and adjust your itinerary the way you did. What a great move.
Roger: And yeah, when we were in Italy, the thing that. That I noticed was that there were no paper cups when you went to a coffee place. They gave you a porcelain cup and you were going to sit there and you were going to drink.
It's like, wait, no, no, no. I'm used to walking the streets with my paper cup or my, you know, my travel mug. Like I have to sit here for 30 seconds and drink my espresso. Like, no, you have to sit here for five minutes and drink your espresso.
Steve: Yeah, exactly. Hang at the counter. You know, it was only until recently, uh, cars didn't have cup holders either. And, you know, that's, now there are some because you bring a can of Coke or whatever, but you won't see Europeans walking around. I mean, yes, Starbucks exists now. But the whole point, particularly in Italy, but in France too, of having coffee is to visit, to be present. In the cafe, not to do it on your own, you know, and in part, I like if, uh, oh, you're making me think of so many things, Roger, um, you know, the French, and I don't think it's dissimilar for the, with Italians, work 35 hour work week, generally, and they're even talking about reducing it from that, and they get five weeks of paid vacation a year, five weeks, paid vacation.
Anybody, it's not up to Boeing or to Starbucks or whatever that's government mandated. And every, and then every Catholic holiday that's ever been invented. And if the holiday falls on a Thursday, why would you go back to work on Friday? And so they are masters at slowing down savoring that cup of coffee.
And they don't understand, really, they don't, it doesn't compute. That idea of being in a hurry and getting something to go and running with it, right? It doesn't mean it's wrong either. I like my coffee to go and cruising down the road and getting things done I'm a multitasker too. But when you're traveling understand that you're the The habits and customs you bring with you aren't always understood Where you're traveling?
the way we assess the commodity of time Americans spend time The French pastime. Think of that expression. And because that's how you say it in French. And I think that says a lot about how, you know, how we look at our watches and, and, and, uh, anyway, uh, another way, reason, a way to go to broaden your perspective and before you go, uh, prepare yourself as best as possible too.
If you're going to spend those, that carbon footprint, and your money traveling, invest your time before your money. And learn a little bit as much as you can so you land ready to go. And get, make getting the most out of your trip, whatever that is, you want.
Roger: As you were saying that I was thinking, you know, if there is a cost to travel, there is, I mean, monetary, there's, there's a, there is an environmental impact to whatnot.
But if there is a cost, what can you do to make the world a better place? And yeah, there's the carbon. offset, but if we're building bridges, if we're creating experiences, if we're changing mindsets of others as they experience us and we experience them, so our mindset's changing, can we offset the cost through experiences to make the world a better place?
Yes. Thank you for joining us, and I'm glad you're enjoying the episode so far. Each What Do You Know To Be True episode is an opportunity to learn from and get inspired by our guests, who are everyday people with extraordinary talent making meaningful impact in their communities. To continue to be a part of these conversations and explore new ways to be inspired by our guests, go ahead and click that subscribe button so you won't miss any episodes.
It's great to have you be a part of this community, and I'm glad you are here. Let's get back to the episode. So when you're thinking about inspiring to experience, when you're creating a talk, when you're working on the book, when you're going to be talking to someone who might ask you, Hey, I'm going to France.
Do you have suggestions on where to go? When you're looking to inspire. Do you have a framework or a way of thinking about that process when you, when you start?
Steve: How sad it is how few people who travel internationally go with a book or good information, how they make it up as they go once they arrive.
And I hear them at hotel receptions all the time, Americans, what should we do today? Well, you're not going to get into the Louvre Museum or up the Eiffel Tower because you had to book that in advance now. It is a big issue, and I'm, there are lots of people traveling to the popular cities like Paris and Rome, Florence, Venice.
Get ready for it, for sure. Um, and it makes it harder. It really does. But the rest of the countries are still quiet. That that you experienced in Burgundy, and they are a fraction of the price as well. You asked about a framework. It is, it is how, you know, how it is getting harder in big cities. I mean, I, I heard a piece recently about the Sistine Chapel.
Maybe you heard that too. There's so many people wanting to go in the Vatican museums in the Sistine Chapel. And I mean, it was that way when I led tours there. You know, decades ago that the, the, uh, the painting is becoming, um, damaged by our respiration, et cetera, just like it would in the caves in the door.
Don't you? That are 30000 years old from cave pro Magnin period of time. So they have to limit the number of people. Well, that's just a, an indication of how many people want to go to these popular places. Well, you're going to have a better experience. I mean, you, you gotta, you gotta see the Louvre. You gotta see the Eiffel Tower.
I mean, I, I, I would never suggest not, and the Vatican Museum, but boy, pepper your trip with, uh, smaller places or, or other experiences and be open to what you did. I still love your Italy experience in multiple Ciano and in the Tuscan Hill towns. Yeah.
Roger: Well, and it was the day before we did that, that road trip.
And I, I still, you know, my wife and I will joke because the, um, the owner of the butcher shop, after he was reading off a couple instructions to his brother to write down on that paper bag, he looks at us and he says, you're going to get a bit dusty, um, because the roads aren't all paved and, and yeah, that, um, I think we had to pay a little extra fee for how dirty the car was when we dropped it off.
But the day before we went up to Florence, And we got to see the statue of David, and there is something that you cannot get from pictures about the look in David's eye, about the details on his hands, you can't get from a book, you can't get that, um, from watching it on TV, you actually have to see it, but I love that juxtaposition of one day, We're marveling at David.
The next day. Um, you know, we're bouncing around the hills of, of Chianti and going down to the, the hill towns and Southern Tuscany and, and that both those sets of experiences, um, are, are amazing. for, for very different reasons. But did we, um, you know, the quality of the experiences though are really high, but they're very different.
It's very different standing in a long line of tourists and having to sort of shuffle through the museum to get that five, 10 minutes, definitely worth it. But a different quality of experience and then, you know, that evening talking to the butcher and the next day talking to people, you know, at that cooking class that just made us this most amazing white truffle gnocchi.
I can still taste it.
Steve: Oh God, I love white truffles. Oh, so good.
Well, you had asked about framework and, and yeah, the common thing that, so just what you said. Do to help somebody plan a trip. They have X number of days. And so to make sure that I know what's important for them to see, but also that I slow them down.
It's very common to think you can do more. If you look at a map, I mean, France is two thirds the size of Texas. Right. With twice the population or three times the population. Right. And, and far more diversity. I mean, there's two different coastlines in France, the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. There's three mountain ranges, the Alps, the Pyrenees and the Massif Central.
Right. There's a lot there. So to try to focus people so that they have those times. those moments to be able to experience and have those conversations that broaden their perspective. If there's a framework, um, that maybe that explains it best to try to help people.
Roger: Well, and as I experienced the resetting of expectations of how much you can get done in any given day when you're traveling, by resetting, by slowing down, you might actually get to experience more.
But then there's the reality of like, it takes you five hours to once you land at Charles de Gaulle to even get into downtown Paris, like there's, there's some of those realities that…
Steve: Well, that's why you have a guidebook because I teach you how to do that most efficiently and by the way, you're, you're speaking my language.
I mean, when you come home from your trips. It's not going to be the Louvre or the Eiffel Tower that is your memory. It's going to be somebody you met, an experience that you had on the way that is going to be what you remember most. I mean, you will remember the Louvre and the Eiffel Tower and the views are great, but what's going to really stay with you.
It's the people you meet, right? Think of your daily life. It's logical.
Roger: What does it feel like when your superhero power of inspiring to experience has had a positive impact on others?
Steve: I'm not trying to be humble. Um, my dad likes to say that modesty is an overrated quality anyway. I don't think about that much, but I do when I'm in Guatemala, maybe that's the most powerful immediate reaction is because of the trip I do there.
We, as you know, we visit projects and usually run by Americans that are helping the people in one of the poorest countries of the world. Um, and then the feedback I get afterwards and the, uh, The reaction of people who had no clue, right? Cause how could you possibly from your couch or your TV understand the school in the dump, right?
The largest dumping in all of Latin America is in Guatemala city and the American funded schools, elementary, middle, and now a high school being built to help so that the P the 1400 people make a living scavenging. From that huge dump, which looks like a Grand Canyon down below, that experience of visiting the school and seeing it right there in the favela, the lean to the slums that are all around it is something that you, you need to go to experience.
And that makes me feel good. That, um, and I trust I get lots of feedback from the books in France. Of course. I mean, our books are great. Hundreds of thousands of copies. Right. Every year. I don't know. A hundred thousand, whatever. That's a lot of feedback possible. And that, and most of it's good. And some of it's constructive, of course.
And I learn a lot through reader feedback, but that that's a good feeling. It's an affirmation that I'm on the right track, Roger. And if I'm on the wrong track, Because we do make these books so personal and we, we, we recommend local guides and hoteliers and mention their first names because we're on a, I mean, a lot of my job, by the way, when I'm researching is really almost an ambassador for Rick Steves, because the hotels want to see me.
And if I skip a hotel, right, and maybe they were gone, or I don't know, and I know they're good. I don't have to worry. You know, I talk to these people all the time. They are. Because they want to see me or they want to see Rick, of course, in his book, because that that is that personal connection that that we make that then they extend to our readers.
That's a rewarding part of it. Because I hear from them. That's where I was going with that. Roger of. Of how nice, and by the way, this is not me just saying this, to a person in France, they would far rather have American clients than French clients. They love us and we're curious, we are as a people, we smile, we're curious, we are appreciative of anything they do for us.
Just think of your experience in Italy again. You know, he could have done that for a French person. I have no idea the reaction they might have given him, you know, for his, uh, what do you want to Give us an itinerary. Give me, give me a break. I know what I want to do. But we Americans are, are, and we're far from home too.
So we need the help, right?
It's sort of set up to succeed for us. Uh, I, I get it all the time. I, I, you made me think about that, Roger, the feedback from the hoteliers, the local guides, the restaurants that I send a lot of people to, um, and how happy our clients are and how, how polite they are and how appreciative.
And that makes me feel very good.
Roger: How is your superhero power of inspire to experience connected with your purpose?
Steve: Uh, I guess living by example, um, inspiring people to go if there's a purpose, um, um, and I mean, my friends, I drive crazy because I'm always, We'll be on a trip and I'm already talking about the next trip.
You know, when they remind me and they're right. Wait, be back in the moment, Steve. You're here right now. Be present right where we are. But I get so excited about, okay, because next time we could do this if we missed that or something like that. But it's been inspiring people to go and leading by example, I guess.
Roger: So what do you know to be true about inspiring to experience?
Steve: That genuine curiosity and. Open mindedness is absolutely essential. Going with preconceived notions is hard to avoid, but being open to thinking in a different way, whether it's everything from, I mean, the social issues of how healthcare is provided.
gun control, uh, retirement days of vacation that that other countries get all these social issues. And also to understand, by the way, how both how things might be different in the country we live in, but also how lucky we are to live where we are. Because when I come back from traveling, boy, believe me, there are aspects of living in the United States.
Many that I'm so glad I have going, yeah, with that open mindedness, that's huge and not, we don't have it best figured out, nor do the French, nor the Italians.
Roger: And I love, I love how you're talking about the, you know, coming with curiosity and being able to be open to new experiences. And then you also talked about, um, something that I found to be true when I traveled.
I was, I was fortunate enough to travel a lot around. Um, teenage years and early adulthood and it always, the thing that struck upon me the most was coming back home and being able to see things here differently and more clearly than, than maybe when I left. And so again, the curiosity, the open, the new experiences, and there's something about traveling that, um, to get the most of that experience.
Coming with curiosity and being open to new things is really important. But then I think there's a little bit of the Bringing that back home and in many of these conversations that I have in these podcasts people will talk about the value of Curiosity as being something goes hand in hand with their superhero power Makes them more You know, more available to better experiences and better living when, when they're not thinking about that.
Steve: Yeah. Go. You made me think to it, a value of traveling somewhere else, particularly to another country in this case, but I'm into it for anywhere you go, you know, go out for the sunset. I mean, I live in a beautiful part of the world as you do. And there are, the light changes all the time, uh, I can remember one French person telling me, it's all about the light, it's the light, it's the light on those hills, etc.
And appreciating the light, whatever it is. But when you travel internationally, coming back and appreciating, you gain an appreciation for things that you may have taken for granted, that you probably did take for granted, at home, and how good things are, and how good we have it as Americans. That's a huge benefit of going.
Experiencing, coming back, just as you said, and also I can rail against Instagram and, and people who travel just with what's the hip place to go now, rather than discovering it on your own, you know, and what a change in my life and your life too, of how people discover places and how trendy places, restaurants, I see it all the time.
There's a lineup because somebody's written it up on whatever it is, whatever media platform it is. Yeah. Yeah. And people who only want to do those things. So, don't just look online for what's the coolest restaurant. Wander around and discover. It's so wonderful to find your own place. I don't know that place in Italy that you were mentioning before you had one of the best meals of your life, but I get this from readers all the time.
We discovered. Yeah, that's such a great feeling. And it's funny because I can talk out of both sides of my mouth because I write guidebooks and recommend restaurants, right? And I want people to use those recommendations, but mostly to understand how much. Because if you want Italian or if you want a certain kind of experience, here's some, a lot of choices, not just one that everybody wants to go to for this, that, or the other thing.
This is, um, you know, a, uh, curated, I guess, opinion of a bunch of different places, but also we always recommend people find it, find your own place. But if you want, you know, great foie gras or whatever, here are the places I like and, and, and, uh, and consider these rather than you have to go there.
Roger: So what did you believe early on about inspiring to experience that you've come to learn to not be true?
Steve: It's not uniform that, that the reception that I get is always terrific. And, you know, but with lovely, open minded people, uh, that has been something I've had to learn and, and accept and, and not rebel against. I I'm a, I'm a rebel because I used to talk to them and I'd be in a tourist office and the, and the person in the tourist office was, you know, Not really very nice, really, I thought.
And I, and I would, I would scold them. Well, in a sense, I'd say, you know, here's what I do for a living, right? This is my job. And I think you, you could learn from a little bit of a, of a better attitude and a nicer disposition. You can imagine how that went over. But that's, uh, but I learned that from Rick too.
We're, we're straight with people. You know, if we get a criticism about a hotel or restaurant, we let them know. Uh, we don't, we don't pretend, uh, that things are all perfect if they're not.
Roger: And, and I love the idea of just go and combine that with a sense of curiosity and the sense of looking for an experience of being, getting out of maybe, um, the normal, Um, mindset you would take when traveling and, you know, sitting and having a cup of coffee in the cafe rather than putting it in the paper cup, starting a conversation with someone, um, maybe, you know, lingering a little longer, um, on a park bench and, you know, talking to someone who comes by, maybe that's going to paint a, you know, give you a much different experience than if you're just, you know, Yeah.
Sitting on the tour bus, looking at the world go by through the window. It's not, that's not that much different than watching it on TV.
Steve: Right. Well said. I like how you said that, Roger. Yeah. Yeah.
Roger: So Steve, are you ready for the lightning round? What are you springing on me now, Roger? No, this is good stuff.
So fill in the blank. Inspired to experience is what I live for. Who in your life inspires experiences for you?
Steve: People I meet when I travel now. People I meet, locals, whether it's in Guatemala, in Utah, or in France.
Roger: I love that virtuous cycle there.
Steve: Yeah, yeah. I mean, initially it was my parents and Rick, of course, I learned a lot from them, but now who inspires me more are the people I meet when I'm traveling.
Roger: Is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture or renew your ability to inspire to experience?
Steve: Well, slowing down, being thoughtful about what I'm about to do wherever I am, um, and I, and I'm guilty of this restlessness and I have to watch it in myself. I really have to be careful, um, because I can suddenly, I mean, this is how I hurt myself sometimes too, is jumping across the street and going for the next thing and wait, stop, slow down.
Um, I put the brakes on a little bit. That's my, my need. So meditation, just being quiet. stretch a lot in the mornings, just, just to not run right off and do something. And I also write, I guess you could call it journaling. Uh, when not in France, I'm too busy with the book updates when I'm, but back at the house where you saw me when, when the updates are done.
And then particularly when I'm in nature, writing thoughts down, that's, that's my journaling. It's not so much, what did I do today? It's what am I thinking today? That has been helpful to me too. Very helpful. It's slowing me down and, uh, and even around the house here. I'll pick up my journal because if I'm, I, uh, um, I don't, I'm on a good thought process here and I want to explore it more.
And exploring through writing has always been how I've dealt with some tragedies in my life, losing dear friends, and processing that. And it's also processing how I'm feeling, what I'm doing, what matters to me.
Roger: Is there a book or movie that you recently consumed and would recommend that has inspired to experience as a theme?
Steve: I'm reading now, almost done with it. I think it's called Blue Latitudes by Tony Horowitz because I was in Hawaii and it's about Captain Cook. And somebody I knew nothing, well, something about. I know about the Cook Islands, et cetera, but wow. Um, and out of my normal range of interest, right? Uh, uh, I, that's a great book and it's a great exploration in, in, um, uh, incredibly detailed of, uh, what this incredible person did in the 1700s in terms of exploring the world and the courage, et cetera, uh, that's, that's pretty amazing.
Read that, that's inspiring that alone.
Roger: What is one thing that gets in your way of inspiring to experience?
Steve: Impatience. I am terribly impatient. Do
Roger: You want to think about that answer? That came out kind of quickly.
Steve: What's the opposite of a superhero quality? Oh, God, yeah. Yeah, and I mentioned restlessness before, which might be kind of a euphemism for impatience, a nicer way of saying it.
But yeah, my impatience to go and my need. I mean, I've had to fight this to slow down and take time on that park bench you mentioned earlier. Right. Um, no, that's, that's what I have to fight with all the time.
Roger: That is really interesting. So the thing that your superhero power of inspiring other people to do is the thing that's your challenge.
Steve: And I have to follow my own advice. I really do. And that's if self criticism and, um, would be exactly that.
Roger: What word or phrase describes what inspiring to experience feels like when it's had a positive impact?
Steve: A deep feeling of, um, happiness. Genuine. There's a diff, there's a diff, such a difference between just momentary, that's a great sunset, which is, which is another realm of that.
And that more profound feeling of contentment. Contentment. There you are.
Roger: If a listener wants to ask you a question or follow you, where do you want to point them to?
Steve: Two sources actually, Roger. One is RickSteves.com because the staff there will take your, your question and it may be answered by somebody more knowledgeable than I.
You could be going to Ireland and, or to Italy and there are people who know far more than I do. But if you want to get in touch with me, they'll make sure it makes sense that I'm con and do I want to be contacted and also global visionaries for, um, for travel to Guatemala and, uh, you can just Google global visionaries.
That's an organization in Seattle that my, uh, My daughter and your son both went through in high school that takes that is about make, uh, helping, um, grow, uh, global leaders from our, our student children. Um, and I'm connected with them still to if you have questions about Guatemala, the staff there, uh, we'll get your question to me.
Roger: And are you still running the, uh, experience Guatemala trips?
Steve: Yes, I do it every year. I mentioned it before too. That's just such a rewarding, um, trip in such a different way because it's a mix of seeing the highlights of this country that is beautiful, spectacularly beautiful, and the culture and the Mayan culture is so alive and vibrant in front of you that you wouldn't experience in the same way in front of you.
The easier to travel to country of Costa Rica, nothing wrong with Costa Rica, but I think you get more of a real sense of reality in Guatemala. And we also mix that in with a good dose of, um, understanding the challenges that the country faces and projects that are underway that global visionaries, for example, schools being built in rural areas where You are there.
They couldn't walk far enough. There were no roads to take them to the distant schools in the cities are being built. I think we built over 40 different classrooms. Um, then we visit projects like that as well, uh, on that tour. And it's very, uh, to, to, to see in person, the good work that's being done and using Guatemala as an example.
I think Americans are doing this throughout the world in countries like this. That's a, that's a, that's the way to travel to a developing country like Guatemala.
Roger: Global visionaries has been, um, around for over 22 years and has a sister program in Guatemala. So high school youth, um, from the United States and Guatemala get together and they do projects within communities directed by the communities of, of what they, what they need and the numbers of classrooms is actually over 500.
during that time that have been constructed. Um, and then the numbers of trees that have been planted as part of the reforestation, um, is, you know, in the thousands, like the impact has been amazing and love that the work is actually, um, really guided by a philosophy that was, um, coined by Lilla Watson of, if you're here to help me, You're wasting your time But if you're here because you know that your liberation and my liberation is tied together Let's get to work.
And so the work is done very much in that Um, it's it's not the white saviorism of us coming down and saying hey, let's let's help you But let's work together to improve whether it's access to education or whether it's the reforestation. So yeah, global visionaries, can't say enough about them. Um, one of the things I'm grateful about global visionaries is it brought you and I together.
So really, really appreciate that. Um, and love how you've been organizing these trips as part of Experience Guatemala to, uh, to, so people can, Um, go down and get a little bit of that global visionaries experience, but you also do a little, a little tour guiding around the, around the country. So people learning
Steve: and experiencing, in fact, we call it experience Guatemala.
That's, uh, it's about learning and experiencing too, and also having fun. I mean, and there's great cuisine down there. Oh, that's one
Roger: of the things that the students that come back every year after they come back, we do a little storytelling night where they talk about the thing that, um, you know, one of their most impactful experiences there and about 30 to 50 percent of the stories have to do with the homestay family they stayed with and the food.
the quality of the food. Um, it's, it's always wonderful to hear those stories and, you know, when you're sharing a meal with someone, those conversations. By the way,
Steve: yeah. And I would highly recommend that if somebody that who watching this. Podcast or listening to it. I should say, considers Rick, Steve's did a program called Hunger and hope for hope and hunger, however, that featured Guatemala in Ethiopia.
And these projects that are an encouraging look at both countries of some of the poorest countries in the world and the good work that's being done to improve the lives of these people. So, you know, what is it, 60 percent of the world lives on 2 a day or less. Right. And, um, that's a great, he did an excellent job on that show.
And I thought the way he featured Guatemala was right on too.
Roger: Yeah. I'll put, I'll put the link to that show in the, in the show notes here. Um, but if someone wants to learn more about experience Guatemala, where do you want to point them to?
Steve: GlobalVisionaries.org. Our itinerary is up there. They're on the website.
I just talked to Jennifer and it should be accurate. And the dates of departure for 2024 or whatever. We always go in November. I mean, it's people always think it's gonna be hot or whatever. No. I mean, there's no humidity. I mean, the country, the most of what we visit is at 6, 000 feet. Um, the temperature is about 80 degrees, no humidity until we go north to Tikal.
Then there's a little humidity up there near the Mexican border to the Mayan ruins. But now it's the anytime of the year is a good time to go. So don't wait for my tour. Just go if you have to, there's, uh, there's other groups that do it well too, or experience it on your own.
Roger: I love that. Well, Steve, I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing with us your superhero power of Inspired to experience and I love how you've been really, you know Sharing the different ways that you help inspire others and that you also when you're doing it You're inspiring yourself and now you've inspired me.
I'm I got to think about Where, what my next trip is and where do I get to remember to not only bring my curiosity and my openness to experience things wherever I go, but that I can also be doing that while I'm here and enjoying the sunsets that we get here in Western Washington that are fantastic.
And if it's even going out and walking in the rain. There's plenty of people out walking their dog, and maybe it's time to talk about their dog or get to learn a little bit more about them. So there's more to experience. We don't have to travel the world, uh, to get that experience, but there is a big world out there where we can gather more experiences that we can't get here.
So thank you for sharing that. Thank you for being here with me. I always appreciate you and our conversations and I'm just very grateful.
Steve: Uh, this was a pleasure. It was good to be with you, Roger, and, and, and a joy. And, um, can't wait to see you again soon. I hope.
Roger: Absolutely. Take care.
Steve: Cheers.
Roger: So thank you all for being in this conversation with us. And thank you, Steve, for sharing your experiences and perspectives on traveling. And bringing your curiosity to travels and creating those experiences with locals. I've heard before that the benefit of travel is not about the destination, but it's all about the friends we make along the way.
And after talking with Steve, I'm more convinced it's also about the relationship we cultivate within ourselves. The question I'm asking myself now after this conversation is where can I bring more of that curiosity and wonder I experience when I travel into my everyday reality to help me experience more about my world and ultimately reveal more about myself?
What do you know to be true? As a three Blue Pens production? And I'm your host, Roger Kassner. We are recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Squamish people to discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose land you may be on. Go to https://native-lands.ca. Okay? Be well, my friends.