How to Craft Strategic Narratives | Narrative Power with Guillaume Wiatr

WDYKTBT 19 - Narrative Power with Guillaume Wiatr

Guillaume: And through that story, I've always been faced with things I wanted to change. I wanted to rebel against stuff. There, at the same time, I wanted to conform with stuff with things like in school, in my first jobs in big, big consulting firms, and then quickly realize. I, I don't fit to this mold.

I want to create the pot that I want to thrive in. I'm sharing this with our audience here because   this is the background for what I do. And when I work with a client, what I get in exchange is that it continues to fuel my story, right? I position my business as I am serving my number one client is myself, right?

So everything I do, all the videos I post are initially for me, and they are all advice that I should be following. And then if that helps other folks. Then then great. 

So hopefully nobody, hopefully people don't, don't think this, this is kind of egocentric maybe, or maybe they don't, they don't think of it as a in a negative way, but I do this when I say me, it's not me, Guillaume Wiatr you know by my name, but it's me as the type of professional that I am.

Roger: Hi, I’m Roger Kastner and welcome to the, what do you know to be true podcast. In these conversations, I talk with ordinary people about their extraordinary skill. And the meaningful impact it has on others. The goal is not to try to emulate or hack our way to a new talent. The intention is to learn more about their experience with their superhero power.

So maybe we can learn something more about the special talent in each of us, which then allows us to connect more deeply with our purpose. This conversation is with Guillaume Wiatr, and we're talking about his superhero power of narrative power. If someone were to ask me before this conversation, what Guillaume does, I would have said something like he helps entrepreneurs and business owners craft the story.

They tell others about the why, how, and what they do. The problem is. That would have been wrong. In this conversation, Guillaume helps me understand the difference between a story and a narrative and how the process is both a decluttering of the noise and a creating clarity in the signal. Guillaume is quick to use words like abundance and joy and love, but it's clear about how these things work.

things need to be applied in a systemic approach that produces money for him and his clients. He has also found that despite what Simon Sinek says, starting with why can be dangerous. Okay. If you're ready, let's dive in. Well,

Good morning, Guillaume. Thank you for joining me. I'm really excited about this conversation. 

Guillaume: Roger. It's a pleasure to be here. 

Roger: So we have had opportunities to know each other and to work with each other over the last several years. I can't even remember exactly when we would have met for the first time, but I know it goes back maybe even 10 years ago.

Something like this. I think. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to let you do it. Cause you're, you're the expert on you. Tell us Guillaume. So 

Guillaume: Guillaume currently is the principal and founder of a small business strategy consulting firm called Meta Helm. And what Meta Helm does is that it specializes in helping CEOs, leadership teams founders business owners of professional services firms, build a firm that is not only innovative, Financially successful, but also a firm that they love.

And we do this through my proprietary methodology called strategic narrative and strategic narrative is based on the concept of narrative power, which is a concept that is very well known and applied in fields like social justice religion and politics, a little less in business, in my opinion.

But in the last couple decades, we hear more and more about storytelling and therefore more and more people are realizing the, the power of narrative in our business activities. I have a different way to define stories and narrative than most people and it's probably closer to how people would define it in social justice.

Religion and governments and politics. And my, my way to define this is to, I separate stories and narrative. For me, there are two different things, although we use them interchangeably in our daily conversations. Um, they obviously have there's an, there's a, there's an overlap, obviously, you know, even if you look in the dictionary, the, the first layer, the first level definitions are the same.

This, where it gets interesting is in the second level of the definition, second layers. To me, a story is. A piece that is closed ended, it has a beginning, a middle, and that's why when we use, when we use the core principle of storytelling in in movie making or marketing we always say, Oh yeah, you know, the, there's gotta be a happy ending, there's gotta be a close.

Right. Um, and then maybe we, we reopen another story loop later on the, on the contrary narratives are open ended. Yeah. A narrative never ends. A narrative is a perspective. It's, it's the way you look at things. It's the way you, you think about things. So for instance, if I, you know, here I have a, I'm sipping a glass of water as we're having this conversation.

Um, this glass of water is half empty. But it's also helpful. Same story, two different narratives. So if you apply those principles, you start realizing that narratives influence everything we do as a society. In fact some scientists believe that it's the reason why the human species is still in existence, because we have this, this ability to make up stories.

To imagine things, to tell lies, to gossip, to completely twist the reality, right?   when we are about to fail and almost die, we still believe in hope and imagine a world where we survive and we actually end up surviving. Yay. So that's the power of narrative here. What we do with MetaHelm is that we look at those professional services firms, whether they are small or big.

I mean, my clients range from one person solopreneur, you know, independent expert businesses to about 2000 people. And, and I look at these and I look at these from four different angles visionary leadership. I look at the, the leaders, how they operate, what's their, what's their narrative marketing, obviously, because that's the primary place where narrative has a lot of power and then operations, how teams form operate and continue to grow and then sales.

And in those four areas, what I've noticed over the 30 years that I've been in consulting is that there is a bunch of. Narratives that get in the way, they're kind of like autopilot things, auto mode, right? How, how do we sell in, how do we sell in B2B services? It's kind of a no brainer. Oh yeah, I get on calls and then I fill out a, you know, a multi pages proposals and then I wait for the clients to call me.

Like this is a really bad narrative. This don't do that. Okay. This is not how you sell properly in B2B services. So, so I look at this and I help those leaders defy that norm because that norm is wrong and they know that norm is wrong and they come to me and they say, Hey, we know that this is, this isn't working for us.

And, and maybe there are other things that we don't see that are not working for us. Can you help us look at these narratives and change them? When I look at a narrative, it's a, the last, and then I'll pause because this is like kind of a quick crash course of what narrative power is. When I do this work, I look at three things.

Obviously what we say, right? And when, when we think about storytelling, most people will, will think about it as a practice that includes words. Obviously, you know, it's communications, how you write, it's how you structure a story and so on.   to me, that's just a visible part of the iceberg. It's how it was obviously what you say, but it's most importantly, how you think it's your mindset, like the narrative.

You know, already exist and you haven't said a thing, even when you look at something, right? Again, that glass that I have in my hands, I didn't say anything. And then I already, I can already feel it or I see it, you know, if I, if I'm in a bad mood or judging mood, or I'm going to lean towards saying, ah, it's half empty.

So the mindset influences that, that narrative a lot. So there, there's a lot of   there's a lot of research on that. In fact, as a therapist. You know, therapist they, they used narrative to heal people you know, to get people to   to more balanced and productive lives through the, through that power.

So it's, it's really a mindset piece. And then the third thing that is equally powerful is through what we do, how we behave, our systems, our procedures our. Yeah, everything we have in place. So a good example for this is in my field is regulated professions, you know, professions that have to follow certain principles, certain procedures by law, right? Like doctors or, or lawyers, for instance, if you go to a, to a lawyer's or doctor's office, the narrative, like no one has talked to you yet and you, you enter the waiting room and the narrative is in full force. You don't control this place. You don't control the frame.

It's probably furniture that indicates stability and clout, that's probably a diploma hung on the wall. Um, and you have to wait and the weight room is, is, is in such a way, traditionally is designed in such a way that. We tell you when you can come and talk and we give you a form to, to fill out, right?

You don't control the narrative there. It's, it's completely controlled for you. And I noticed that in a lot of business to business professions, we don't pay attention to these things because we are not forced to do that because we want freedom and freedom is our worst enemy in that scenario.

Right? So we don't think about these we forget them. So my job is to make sure that the clients that I work with are conscious of this and that they make better and more informed decisions about these narratives. I let them choose, I show them possibilities. Um, and I always do that in alignment with who they are and who they want to be as a leader.

Hence my definition of what I my value proposition is not only your firm will work better, but also you will, you will love that firm. You know, it's not gonna, it's not like it's going to drain you or you're going to be really, really proud of it.   and if you're really, really proud of it, you know, it's going to work even better.

Roger: And, and, and I got to see that in the project where we worked together, where we were not only helping the leader come up with the words to say. Um, of how this project, you know, how it ties to the longer term vision, what's going to be necessary. But we also talked about mindset and what are the mindset shifts that need to happen amongst the leadership team.

And then we talked about the behaviors that show that these things are true, which we now refer to as psychological safety. If, if the leaders show that something is true, that we actually are Consistently behaving in a way that allows. This thing to happen. It gives, it gives a signal to the rest of the organization to come along.

Guillaume: Yeah, so the, the project that we were working on, you, you you had brought me on as a graphic facilitator. Graphic facilitation is the use of real time drawings to capture, represent, illustrate conversations that are happening so that everybody has a common definition, a common view or representation of the conversations, which increases alignment, efficiency.

feeling of being heard and so on. So that's, that's what we did. It's one of the many techniques that I have in my portfolio of tools. It was very specific to that particular technique. I still use that technique today, Roger, since we're, we're catching up on, on our projects in life. I still do use that technique.

I don't advertise for it as an independent service, as a separate service. I use that With my clients when it's necessary. The reason is. I started MetaHelm with that hypothesis, with that assumption that I would lead with that, with, with the pen, you know, the marker, I would be the guy who, wherever I show up, I would, I would have a flip chart and draw things.

And my my, my narrative, my assumption was that this is great because when things are visual it captures people's eye, captures people's attention. And that will get me in more conversations about things that I could do through consulting. So it's going to help my business. And one of the things that I realized after a year and a half or two is that it was conveying the wrong message.

It was actually fueling the wrong narrative because there was a more powerful narrative than me that I can not change. And that narrative is that when people draw, they are the artist. Um, it's fun.  It's exciting. It makes things pop. Um, but we don't think of these people as strategic thinkers. We think of them as putting beauty on, on something that is not very, that not, that's not very clear, not beautiful.

So we, we don't have that, that Uber narrative of, of drawing as a strategic tool. It has started to change People like Dan Roam the author of you know, the Back of the Napkin, have worked really intensely in the, in the past couple of decades to change that narrative. But there is, it's still, it's still trying, you know, it's still like trying to move a huge cargo ship in a different direction.

It takes a lot of time. Yeah. I could, 

Roger: I could see how the artist is seen as reflecting a narrative, not driving the narrative. 

Guillaume: Exactly. Exactly. So I stopped doing it because I was just getting called for. to show up at the once at the yearly retreat and, or come to birthday parties and Christmas parties.

Um, and I was telling people I would love to, I would love to come. It sounds really fun. Um, but that's not part of my services at the moment. So it was miss, it was, it was misinterpreted. You had a greater, 

Roger: you had a greater power, you had more. Yeah. That narrative power was something you wanted to focus on.

Guillaume: Exactly. It was more for me to really align what, what would make me work this way for a long time. So I'm a, I'm a long, I'm a long term strategic partner with my clients and my clients. I worked with them for one year or two years, three or four years, and sometimes even more. And I just felt like just coming once to listen and draw what people were talking about was just not me.

It was not me. using my, you know, my secret power. How do you define it? Roger? My 

Roger: either extraordinary talent or superhero power. 

Guillaume: Thank you. My extraordinary talent or superhero. I was just, I, I just felt like I was not using this properly. Um, and I thought, in fact, I would, I started to also realize that Other people would be a better fit for those clients that just wanted me to come for one time things or just to, to facilitate.

And so I started passing my business to other colleagues who do that better than me. So for me, it was a process of   of really aligning with, you know, where I, where I'm supposed to be, what I'm supposed to be doing and, and the way I'm supposed to be doing. 

Roger: One of the things I've noticed about you is you are offering a lot of workshops where you're inviting engagement with potential clients, potentially people who will never be a client, but you are and, and one could think of it as giving away.

a lot of your knowledge and sharing and engaging people in and, and getting better at their own narrative power and their own strategic narrative. And I've always thought that's so generous of you, and I'm sure it generates business in certain ways and it also helps build your brand. Um, but I, I really.

I really want to focus on that generosity part. Tell me a little bit more about what, how you think about that. Does it feel like it's giving away things for free or does it feel like it's just part of who you are and how you want to show up in the community you serve? 

Guillaume: It does feel like giving away things for free, but it doesn't, it doesn't feel bad.

It feels good. There's just, there's so many, so many reasons why I do this. Um, first of one is, first of all, it's a way to explore things. So I publish one video on YouTube Monday through Friday. And I publish once a week on my email list, and then I'm very active on LinkedIn. I also share my thoughts almost every day.

And I'm contemplating adding more to that publication system. I repurpose a lot of my content on Medium and articles of other people. Kind of platforms. I'm also frequent guests on podcast. I've been on almost 60 podcasts in the past two years. So all of that gives me a chance to to just wrestle with my ideas and become clearer and clearer and clearer.

So it's like rehearsing. So if you think of yourself as a somebody who wants to sell their ideas, An expert, that's the definition of an expert. You're paid for what you think. Um, then it's your duty to be as good as, as possible at what you think. And there's only one way to do this is to show up relentlessly in front of people and try to explain what you have to say.

And have conversations about it. Um, and the common narrative in business is that, yeah, it's giving away. It's, it's, it's we're losing opportunities. It's giving away things for free. And I think it's a very toxic narrative. Artists don't think like this. Athletes don't think like this. There's so many other professions where, where we don't think like this, they show up and they do the work that they have to do and they get so good at it.

They find personal or financial reward eventually is an outcome, but initially they don't focus on this.   like if you want to be good at throwing   at shooting at something, right? You don't think about the target necessarily. What you think about is showing up at the, at the shooting range every day.

I had another sports in mind, but then I couldn't find the word in English. So I picked shooting. 

Roger: That's fine. That no, no, it's, it's I mean, shooting, shooting could be a metaphor too. 

Guillaume: Exactly. 

Roger: Right. But what I hear you talking about is really focusing on the process or the systems and not the outcomes.

Guillaume: 100%. So I'm not the only one that says this. I think James Clear from Atomic Habits has this, it's one of the core of his perspective. So many other people have, have noticed this. And I try to apply this, this practice in my, in my business practice. So, so I, I try to remove as much Um, friction as I can in the publication process.

I don't edit things.   I keep my, my pieces to only what's necessary. I try to value my audience time more than mine and think about, okay, if somebody had three minutes, what would be a value for them in my, in these three, what, what would be maximum value for them in three minutes? And so that's, that's a guiding principle here.

That's, that's one of the narrative I've been, I've been changing. So how did I start with this? Um, I came from the complete opposite of the spectrum many, many years ago and rapidly, fortunately, I quickly noticed that it just doesn't work. It's very expensive. Um, it leads to only inauthenticity and yeah, it just it just creates too much, too much problem, too many, too many things, right?

So Another reason why I do this Roger is because I am probably in a phase of development that requires this technique.   Meta Helm is now seven years, seven years old will be in 24, seven years old. And I feel like I'm, I am at a moment where this is the right thing to do. Right. Um, I can afford to do that.

  it's just all the stars are aligned. To be that generous and my, my business is doing really fantastically well for the, for my needs and my expectations at that stage I see this as a hope, you know, I think, I think I'll, I'll continue to do this for, for a lot, for, for very long. So, but who knows, maybe not, but my, my impression is that I'm going to do this for maybe another 10 to 20 years.

Um, and for now, and so I think that that's the right thing to do is to abundantly share and explore what is happening here on the topic of narrative power and then just share it with people. It's a another reason why I do this is because it's not a very, it's a complex topic. Right. It has many facets and I feel like it would be   you know, for, for me, just in terms of business understanding the concept is one thing, but applying them is another, and it's probably the, the, the hardest one.

And that's when I charge, that's when I do coaching and consulting.   some people are very good at implementation, but there is enough people who need my help in the implementation phase. for me to to make a living. So it's kind of a virtuous cycle, right? It's like, because I made that, then I can produce more content and help more people and have more impact.

As my, my colleague, George Cowell says, “my marketing is my ministry.” My job starts when I do marketing. It doesn't start when I get paid. It starts when I. I share something with people and, and, and countless time I've had people, you know, come back to me and say, Hey, we got, I saw your video on YouTube. I tried to do this.

It worked so well. Thank you so much. And makes me so happy. So there's the joy factor here, Roger, the, the love and the joy that comes back just keeps me going. So why would I, why would I stop? Why? Why would I stop with that? 

Roger: So when you are able to do what you're supposed to be doing, when you're leaning into and delivering value, really driving that narrative power, what's the impact that it has on your clients and on others?

Guillaume: The people that I serve constantly tell me, I feel more clear. I feel more confident. I feel more organized. I don't have that feeling of stress and overwhelm in my body. When I work. With my team or when I work on specific projects, for instance. They tell me that it's easier to sell. So easier to sells, to sell leads to more sales and better sales.

Um, not, not always in numbers. Not all my clients are interested in, you know, unlimited revenue potential. They're happy with us, with the, with the love, with the level that they have defined. What they care about is really other layers of value, which are the impact they have on their clients and their community and really fulfilling a dream.

One of my clients, I think he was he was on your show recently you know, Bill Hefferman. Um, you know, he, he's, he's just one of the world's greatest experts at resilience. And one of his dreams was always to be able to have more independence and freedom. And he'll tell you that this is public knowledge.

I'm not revealing anything that is secret. Um, check out Bill. He's just amazing. And   and, and yeah, and that's, that's always what he wanted to do. He's one of the greatest experts, but he didn't really. Um, he was, he was in need of support to build the business layer around that expertise. And so to really bring the, the, the right narratives.

around that expertise to be able to make a living off of it. And he's doing extremely well. 

Roger: Is it more creating clarity for them or is it helping them   remove clutter? 

Guillaume: So remove clutter is how we do, how we get to clarity. Yes. I love that because that's, that's really, that's definitely my philosophy, you know, getting rid of stuff.

  and one of I'm glad you bring this up because one other thing I hear, I mean, I constantly ask for feedback. I constantly get one of the keywords that, that come when I ask for feedback. Oh, he's like, Oh, you're, you help us streamline things. And so the, my philosophy is to, to explore, you know, explore possibilities, but then pick, you know, Pick one possibility and, and just remove the rest.

Roger: You had said earlier about helping, helping leaders, helping business owners by, you know, examining the narrative they have. today. And then you know, seeing how that narrative is working for them and ultimately changing it. And it sounds like part of that process is the decluttering and then the finding clarity in there.

And, and   another episode early on with Corinna Calhoun, where she's talking about rewriting inter narratives starts with that same process of like, Hey, that, that story you have, how is that working for you? Um, and then if it's not working well, let's, let's rewrite it. So I, I, I really I'm really enjoying this and, and, and connected with that conversation because it's, it's hers was focused on individuals, yours is also focused on individuals, but definitely more in the, in the workspace, which is really cool.

And you were just talking about the impact it has on others. What's the impact of that?   that you experience when you've helped people through narrative power, build their new narrative. I make more money. Okay. That's good. But that's not why you're doing it. You already told me that's not why you're doing it.

So why are you doing it? That is why 

Guillaume: I do it. No, no, no. Let's be, let's be, let's be honest. I do this for, I do this for a living. That's not. The only reason why I do it, but I do this for a living and that's one of the things I, I, I, we, I talk a lot with with my clients cause my clients also, you know, oftentimes come to me for, Hey, help me define my why.

And actually I think that starting with why is a dangerous advice for people in the professional services space. I think you should start with what? When you, when you're launching your, your own company and the, so you asked me, what, why, what, what impact does it have on me? Um, I make a great living, but I feel like I'm relevant.

I feel like, you know, I can, I can, I can make somebody's. dreams, objective, the desires, future state come true more easily. And in a way, that's what I hope for myself. So I am seen by some of them as the hero of their story and, and Mutually also, I see them as the hero of my story. Does it make sense?

Roger: It does. I'm 

Guillaume: inspired by them, Roger. I just, I'm just in awe with the, the, the courage they have, the risk they have. And because I show up with hopefully a lot of integrity in front of them every day, I constantly wonder, Hey, what would I do in this situation? Um, do I walk my talk?   you know, recent recently I was helping one of my clients on their websites and giving them advice that I don't use, you know, clearly don't, don't, don't use on my website.

I'm like, I got to change that. I gotta be better. And it's like, and I, and I still stand for the advice I gave them. And then the minute after I'm like, okay. I got to go to my website tomorrow and change this and make it better. Right. So, which I did, so I fixed it. There is really that, that mirroring effect.

Um, and you know, it's, it's, it's true for a lot of people in my, in similar professions, coaches or, or, or. Or people who do therapy sometimes, you know, they be, we, we become a coach because we experienced something and we want others to also experience it or other, other people find value in what we, what we've experienced too.

So my story is a story of an entrepreneur. This is my fourth company. Um, I grew up with entrepreneur every, pretty much everyone in my family was except for my mom. My mom was a teacher, but everybody had their own business. Everybody had their own business. So for me, it was like, there's no other ways than doing, yeah.

Having my business. I'm going to have my business. So but, but I, but I skipped a few, a few important steps quickly. I was also passionate about consulting. I wanted to be a consultant.   while I was in school and my story is the story of of an immigrant as well. I'm from France. Now I live in the U S and I've, and through that story, I've always been faced with things I wanted to change.

I wanted to rebel against stuff.   at the same time, I, I wanted to conform with stuff with, with, with things like in school, in my first jobs in big, in big consulting firms, and then quickly realize I, I don't do these more, more, you know, I, I want to, I want to, I want to create the part that I want to thrive in.

Um, I'm sharing this with our audience here because this is the background for what I do and when I work with a client, what I get in exchange is that it, it continues to fuel my story, right? I position my business as I am serving my number one client is myself, right? So everything I do, all the videos I post are initially for me and they're all advice that I should be following.

And then if that helps other folks. Then, then great. So hopefully nobody, hopefully people don't, don't think this, this is kind of egocentric, maybe, or maybe they don't, they don't think of it as a, in a negative way, but I do this when I say me, it's not me, Guillaume Wiatr you know, my, my, by my name, but it's me as the type of professional that I am, and there are.

I think the stats says millions of, of millions now of, of professionals like me in the B2B space. We're trying to build the kind of business that I, that, that I want to go. So I'm exploring how to do it. I document it. And if that documentation helps, then great. 

Roger: So I love how you started that conversation or that response with money.

Like I do it for money. Um, but then you kind of went around, there's a very common diagram that talks about, you know, things we get paid for capabilities. We have the reason why the purpose and then the impact it has on others. Um, and when those things are in balance. Like we're, we're, we're doing something right and, and, and you hit on all four.

So congratulations. You're playing, you're playing Twister with the the meaningful life game. It's Ikigai, 

Guillaume: Ikigai, Roger. That concept of Ikigai. 

Roger: And, and then what's interesting is you did say that you, you, you put out all those, all that content for yourself first. 

Speaker 3: Mm hmm. 

Roger: Earlier, you were talking about abundance where you, you give it away, you give it to others because it's through that abundance that you're able to, to, you know, do what, what you do.

And it's sometimes it generates more paid work for you and sometimes it doesn't. But what I love about that is the thing you're doing for yourself, you also you have that sense of abundance that you're giving it away to others. And so I, I, They're not a contradiction. They're actually in harmony with each other.

And I love that. 

Guillaume: Yeah. I'm learning this. Thank you. That's good. Because I, I, I didn't notice that. Initially, but I would agree it's in harmony and I'm, I'm glad you bring the concept of, of Ikigai and the twister, the twister metaphor made me laugh. It was, it was totally unconscious. It was totally unconscious, but I, this is, you, you, you perfectly reframe what I was trying to say.

So thank you so much for that. It's like that balance of. what is it that you do? Why do you do what you do is you do it for money. You do it for yourself. You do it because you want to have impact. And what's the fourth one? Help me out. I can't remember. There's a first one.   doing 

Roger: it in service of other people.

Guillaume: Exactly. Doing it in service of, of, of other people.   and that's exactly the, the balance I'm, I'm striking. And I, I started with, you know, I do it, I do it for money for sure. But again, 

Roger: if you don't get paid for it, it's just, you know, it's, it's either philanthropy or a hobby. So what do you know to be true about narrative power?

Guillaume: I know that everybody has the ability to activate it. It's free. I know it's not always easy. I know that it can have dramatic positive effects. You can change your life. You can change lives. I know that it's a source of joy. I, it's not that I, I know, but I hope that more people use it. I think, I think a lot of people use it already, and I, I know that when they recognize the use of it it grows even more.

I know that we need it even more. There's lots of, lots of things and we hear more and more about societal change, environmental change is very publicized right now, but there is many other things that need to, to change and that, that's through leadership. That's through leadership. That's where I think I know that is the source of greater good.

I know that is the source of abundance. Wow. And you know, 

Roger: I could carry on, on and on the whole day. You know, a lot to be true about it. And I love how, I mean, that's my truth. And that's, that's what we're here for. Um, I, I love how abundance and joy and love. come forward so quickly, so easily. What, is there something that you used to believe to be true about narrative power that you've come to learn is not true?

Guillaume: I used to think that it was easier.

And it's, it's not, not necessarily easy. It's not, it takes, it takes more time than we think. 

Roger: Decluttering 

Guillaume: is a big job. Exactly. Yeah. I could not agree more. It's more of a practice. In fact, like a daily, you know, something that a habit that you build. And so just like, just like every habit it requires change rooted deep inside, I think.

So I, so I think it's not, it's not for everyone. Um, not at all times. It's a very personal choice to, that's, that's definitely something I used to believe it's, it's true. It's the, Oh yeah, it's for everyone. Everyone can do that. And over the years, like, you know, maybe, you know, you have to be gentle and appreciate and respect people's choices.

And but, um. And decisions on when they want to do this or not, or when and how, with which intensity they want to do it. It's a very, very personal choice. The, the businesses that I help build are unique in that way is that they're grounded in the, in their leader's decisions, like very, very deeply. 

Roger: What I love about these conversations is there's themes that pop up along the way.

And one of them is, and I think it makes sense when people are living into their purpose, that these things aren't meant to be easy. Like a purpose should not be easy. If it was easy, it probably wouldn't be so meaningful. 

Guillaume: I couldn't agree more. It's   for I, and I, I think I, I see people who like, yeah, I knew from the get go what I want, why and why I wanted to do.

I knew personally, Roger, you know, in my early twenties, I knew I, I, what I wanted to do. I wanted to do consulting. And the reason why is my dad is a doctor. He's a surgeon. And I always admired my dad and I always thought I want to be like my dad. I want to, I want to help others through that consultative process.

Until the day he took me to the operation, operating room with him. And around my, I was 14 or 15 and you know, that was, that was, he was removing a tumor in somebody's skull and I fainted in the first two minutes and I, I can't, I can't remember. It's in blood. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. I can't be a doctor.

And, and I tried yet again and again and again, and I fainted. I had, I had a bad experience, so I knew I wanted to be, I knew I wanted to be in that consultative position of advising or doing some kind of, some form of consulting and I picked business because that was the, the other, uh thing I was really surrounded with.

I also infused a lot of art and creativity in my approach to, to business consulting. So what was my first step and then why do I do it? I'm not sure I even know today, Roger, you know. Um, these answers I gave you today, they're the best answers I can give you as of, you know, the end of 20, this is recording at the end of 2023.

And maybe we'll have another interview in six months and I'll give you slightly different answers. So this is constant evolution. 

Roger: I would love to have that conversation. I think I'm hearing some themes. And when this comes out I, I, I think if you went back and, and, you know, went through those themes, it might, it might or, or watch it and pick out those themes that might, you know, that purpose might be a little bit more clear, but I know we're, we're almost out of time.

Are you ready for the lightning round? 

Guillaume: Oh I guess so. What's this about? 

Roger: Let's let's emphasize the lightning part. So fill in the blank narrative power is 

Guillaume: not easy, but super cool. 

Roger: Is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture, renew your ability to help others with narrative power? 

Guillaume:   yes, many I've got 10 of them and I track them every day.

  it starts with journaling and exercising. Exercising is super duper critical. So my body first, because that's what holds my brain and my recognizes my heart. So exercising, no, if you out of the 10, number one would be this one. And then the third one is playing music. 

Roger: And I know you have that speaker on your shelf and you talked about it in a prior video that you have out there about your, your background, which is of course you say everyone comments on it.

So I will. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous. All I have is blue. You have, you have something well, well crafted there. Um, is there one thing that gets in your way of narrative power? 

Guillaume: Many fears. Yes. The fear of not being enough. For instance yeah, the fear, the fear of not delivering good enough. 

Roger: Is there a word or phrase that describes what narrative power feels like when you've had a positive impact?

Guillaume: Freeing, very freeing, liberating, 

Roger: liberating, because it's all 

Guillaume: about, because it's all about aligning what you're supposed to do with what you're doing. So it means like you, then, then things become lighter easier.   take less time and so on. 

Roger: Love that. If a listener wanted to follow up with you or ask you a question, where would you like to point them to?

Guillaume: Um, my company website, metahelm. com, M E T A H E L M. com. 

Roger: Wonderful. And I'll put the links in the show notes. Guillaume, thank you so much for your time, for your wisdom, for sharing with us your superhero power of delivering narrative power. Um, I learned something every time we talk and today was no exception.

So thank you very much for your time and your 

Guillaume: wisdom. Thank you so much for creating that space, Roger. I think it's very special.   I love your podcast. I know you launched it this year and I can't wait to see and hear about other folks you're going to invite soon. 

Roger: Thank you so much.

It is such a privilege to be part of these conversations. I will not look at storytelling and narratives the same way because of what Guillaume has shared with us. It's like the difference between a pond and a river. The pond feels constant with the beginning ending in the middle, whereas the river is in constant motion.

As someone wiser than me once said, always the same river, never the same water. And if you need me to try to make sense of that, I'm going to need to bring Guillaume back in here and declutter my thoughts on that metaphor. I love how Guillaume is focused on creating systems and processes. He might have an eye on the outcome, but he's clear that it's the focus on those systems with rigor and stamina that will produce the results that clients demand and that are hoping for.

I also love the clarity and the, the art and the passion that he brings with helping others. With narrative power, reflecting on this conversation leads me to a couple of questions. I going to ask myself when I'm thinking about the narrative around my superhero power, where can I create clarity by decluttering the noise?

And am I thinking about the systems and approaches I can apply to my superhero power, or am I focusing on the outcome, which that focus might be creating that clutter. I need to get out of my way. Okay. If you like this episode, please do me a favor and share the episode with one other person. Thank you for doing that.

What do you know to be true is a three blue pens production. I'm your host, Roger Kastner. We are recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and the Suquamish people to discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people, whose lands you are on go to native hyphen land. ca. Okay. Be well, my friends.

It's he's recorded. Oh, I, I did. I did. 

Guillaume: Okay. So, so, so we started already, right? 

Roger: If, if we want to. Okay, cool. 

Guillaume: You'll edit this out, right? 

Roger: Nope. We'll put it on the blooper reel, but yeah. Okay. 

Guillaume: That sounds good.

Speaker 3: Cheers.