The Courage to Connect With Our True Self | Jules Kuroda

The Courage to Connect With Your Innate Self – Jules Kuroda

Jules: I think this is one of the really interesting things about people is like we really yearn to have like that deeper connection. At the same time, we can be so afraid of the vulnerability that's required. And I think it's similar with ourselves. Some people really easily connect with themselves and can go deep and, and ask the the big questions, but I find that a lot of people are uncomfortable going below a certain level of depth with themselves because it's not the fear of the unknown that we're actually scared of. It's what is underneath the unknown. It's the uncertainty.

Roger: In several of these conversations, we've learned that the path to our possible selves requires. Deepening connection and understanding of our innate nature.

And guests have shared that their journeys with their extraordinary talent have been accelerated when they got connected with their innate wisdom. Today's guest, Jules Kuroda shares what she knows to be true about the superpower of helping people connect to their innate self. Jules is a coach, an author, and a guide for those who want a journey into that cave and through the shadows, and she shares the importance of connecting with our innate self so that we can be intentional designers of our lives.

Jules: How do you wanna handle situations in life? Do you wanna handle them very seriously? Um, do you wanna ha have a little bit of grace? Do you wanna be gentle with it? Um, do you wanna be humorous with it? Like, we get to define those things. Um, but this requires connecting with ourselves and, um, and working on some of our own rough edges, you know, that, that exist within us and we all have them.

So, um, but I think it's a, it's a, it's a daily practice.

Roger: When talking about our innate creativity that we are born with, Jules goes into the danger of not connecting with that part of our innate self.

Jules: Often we just don't give ourself permission to, to think like that. We think that's childish, or we think that that's like I have to be serious and grown up.

Um, but it, it doesn't lead to a joyful life. It leads us to start to self implode, and I think we just have to really recognize there's so much power. We're creators in our own lives, but if we're not creating, we, we might be destroying.

Roger: Hi, I'm Roger Kassner and welcome to the What Do You Know To Be True Podcast.

I work with leaders and teams to co-create new pathways to being better versions of themselves. And these conversations are intended to amplify the stories and experiences of the people who have done. Just that the goal is to become inspired from their experiences with their superpowers so that we can discover more about ourselves and the special talent in each of us that drives us towards living into our possibilities.

If you're ready, let's dive in.

Hi Jules. Thanks for joining me today. I am super grateful that we get the chance to talk again.

Jules: Yeah, me too. Roger, I've, uh, I've been really looking forward to this conversation,

Roger: and I'm excited to learn more about your superpower of helping people connect with who they really are. But first, let's take a couple minutes to get to know a little bit more about you.

I know that we share a passion for working with others to overcome their obstacles so they can unlock a more meaningful and fulfilled life. Your book, the Innate Self, you are more than your mind, body and emotions highlights eight principles for achieving more connection and meaning in our lives, and happens to be very similar to the seven pillars that I'm thinking about, helps us achieve our possible selves.

So we have a lot of connection there and I know you and I are gonna go deep in this conversation. So before we do that, I wanna ask you what's important for us to know about you?

Jules: I am a free spirit that, um, that lives a pretty, like, uh, I, I fit into a boxes, um, but I think of people as kind of being these paradoxes that often we don't allow to, to exist.

So we think about ourselves, kind of one dimensional. Um, but I'm like, yes, I'm a hippie and I work in corporate spaces. Um, and I totally got into nature and couldn't do it without a bathroom nearby. Um. So I'm, I'm that, I'm that person I'm up for. Um, adventure is like one of my. Values. So I, um, I love that and I'm grounded around deep conversations as part of why I do what I do.

Roger: I love how you just already mentioned paradox. 'cause last time we talked, you talked about the paradox of connection, that so many people are searching for meaningful connection, but they haven't done the work to connect with themselves first. Mm-hmm. And if we can't be authentic with ourselves. We shouldn't really be expecting to connect authentically with others.

So can you share a little more about why connecting with yourself first is so important for being connected with others?

Jules: Because I think this is one of the really interesting things about people is like we really yearn to have like that deeper connection. At the same time, we can be so afraid of the vulnerability that's required for that.

And I think it's similar with ourselves, like I think, uh, some people really easily connect with themselves and can go deep and, and ask the, the big questions, but I find that a lot of people are. Uncomfortable going below a certain level of depth with themselves because they're afraid of what might, what they might not know.

And I think, you know, one of those things, uh, a professor said to me in grad school, which I thought was just really profound, is it's not the fear of the unknown. That we're actually scared of. It's what we, it's what is underneath the unknown. It's the uncertainty that lives, um, in that space. And we love to be certain, we love to feel like we're in control.

I think as we think about connection and like starting with connection with ourselves, it's such an important thing to like, just allow us to go as deep as we're comfortable with and then just keep pushing. Like exercise, you know, like keep, just keep working that muscle. But if, you know, asking yourself what's the meaning of life is too scary, just start with like, where do you find joy?

And let's start, start there. And I think it's so important to know, uh, the things that matter to you. So one of the first things that I talk about in the book is, um, your character and getting grounded in the values that matter to you. And I think that's a really great place of kind of starting with that personal level of connection.

Roger: Spending five minutes on Twitter, Instagram, you'll see people's talk about how, you know, growth or everything you want is just outside your comfort zone. And we think that's external, at least I think of that as being external. Mm-hmm. Whereas maybe there's a comfort zone within us in that space.

Just outside of that is where our growth is. That's what I'm taking away from that.

Jules: Absolutely. And you know, one of the things that um, was a huge moment in my life is I decided to graduate college early to go with a best friend to Japan. And she knew the language and she, so I didn't do any of my homework.

I just was like, yep, I'll just go. And, um, three weeks ahead of that trip she calls me and she says, I'm not coming. So I find myself suddenly ca like. Thrown into the complete unknown. I don't know what I'm gonna go in for. I haven't studied the language, I don't know anything. And now I'm going, what was gonna be like a trip with my best friend for a year in another country is now a complete year of isolation and solitude.

And that was such a pivotal moment for me in my own life of learning what it means to sit with yourself and to be, to get comfortable with, um, what lies. Beneath your own surface and, and really like start to work through. And it was, it was hard, but it was so grounding, um, for, for me. So I think there's something about facing that discomfort.

Um, it's okay to be a little scared, like that means there's something really interesting on the other side of that. And so being, you know, being courageous in the, in the face of that I think is so. There's something really beautiful about that.

Roger: So many of us just blow past this idea of connecting with ourself.

It's like, we gotta, you know, I gotta connect with my boss. I gotta connect with my partner. I gotta connect with this friend. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. The quality of that connection, it's totally dependent on the quality of the connection with myself. It's true. And I, I just so appreciate you bringing that to my awareness.

Jules: Well, thank you. Um, and thanks for, for framing it that way. Um, that's also been a, a good, a good frame for me.

Roger: At the beginning of the year, I made, you know, my, my word of the year choice, my intention for the years to get in touch with my heart. 'cause I think I've spent so much time up in my head.

Thinking about things. Yeah. And you know, after, after making that decision, probably when I was six, um, right. Uh, because of, well, yeah, I mean, it was what I was shown, um, by a parent of, for me to be loved, I have to be logical. Um, hard choice for a 6-year-old, but this is a choice I made and now 50 years later, I get to choose different, and I, I would've loved to have made this choice 10 years ago, but I'm glad it didn't wait till 60.

Yeah. But I'm here now. Yes. And as I become more connected with my innate self

Jules: mm-hmm.

Roger: I am less dependent on the connections I have with others.

Jules: Mm-hmm.

Roger: Brene Brown has this clip was sent to me by my coach: don't go outside searching for evidence of your worth or your belonging. Don't negotiate that with other people. It's all inside. Yeah. And that was, you know, it wasn't the clip that did it, but it summarized the journey that I've been on of. Realizing, okay, no, I, I need to be more connected with myself, and then I can just relax into the relationships I have.  

I don't need to go and try to validate that with other people. Like, do you still like me? Do you still think I'm important? Do you still think I'm smart? Like, like, no, no, no, no, no. How do I feel about that? Mm-hmm. And if I don't like the answer, well then I can work on that. If I love the answer. I'm good.

Jules: Yeah, exactly. I think that's such a liberating place to sit. I, I love that’s where you are.

Roger: Yeah. Going back to our first conversation, you did say something that surprised me a lot, and it was about the amount of courage it takes to connect with oneself and this idea of getting outside of our comfort zone. We know that takes courage as well, so it takes courage to get to con, to connect with ourselves.

And authenticity has been a. Buzzword over the last several conversations here, and I love how it's also coming up here. It takes courage to be authentic. Mm-hmm. And from what you've told me, and it makes sense now, it takes courage to be authentic. I'm curious to learn what is the relationship between courage and your superpower of helping others to connect with themselves?

Jules: Let's talk about authenticity for just one second before we get into this, because I've had such an interesting relationship with that word because I feel like so many people use that, um, when it first started to become a buzzword around like just bear all, just show all, just be, you know, you know, just be exposed.

Um, and I am not that person, like I am totally comfortable sharing, but. Think there's intimacy in that and there's, like, I, I'm a private person naturally, and so for me, authenticity is really about, um, being true to yourself. And that doesn't have to be exposed. It can be, but it's, it's not hiding from yourself.

And I think that that is really hard because, um, it takes, it's actually something that takes work. It's not like, 'cause we change. And so things that may be true about us at some point, may, may, we may evolve past that. We have to be comfortable with that. We have to examine that. And we see that sometimes in like the relationships that we have in our life, right?

Where we'll have a friend, we may be friends for years, and then as life goes on, maybe that friendship doesn't, um, it doesn't. Stay as close. Um, and I was literally coaching somebody about this yesterday and she was like, I'm really struggling. It was like such a good friend for so many years, and I don't know why, but just doesn't feel, um, like there's, like there's reciprocity there now.

I'm like, but that's okay. You know, you, we've, we evolved past these things. Um, and I think that's a part of it, that's a part of the courage that it takes is to recognize like we're. Beings in the making. We are always changing and evolving and life changes us, um, and how we engage with life changes our relationships, like all of these things.

I think it takes a lot of courage to be willing to embrace that. To, to examine those things. Um, and it does require not being comfortable. Like it's so easy to just stay kind of in our bubbles in the worlds that we, we've created for ourselves. But to constantly be growing and changing, um, means we have to sometimes step away from things.

And that is uncomfortable. That, that really takes, I think, um, you know, some, some muscles of courage.

Roger: Now, I love how you were just talking about your story of going to Japan and that sounds like it was part of the inspiration to have the superhero power of helping people connect with themselves.

But I wanna ask, is there something else, some, you know, some person or something that helped to inspire. Your superpower.

Jules: Japan was a pivotal moment for me, but I also have had, um, I did refugee resettlement work in Chicago for, for several years and that had a tremendous impact on, on me. And it was one of those things where I was a teacher, I was teaching English, um, but I really was the student.

I was really learning about life. Um, from people who had gone through real trauma. Some, some of them had gone through real trauma, real pain, um, and yet still had that glimmer of hope that were joyful, that were, um, they were willing to get up every day and do hard work to make a better life. It was such, um, very resilient.

It was such a, a beautiful time of my life. And it was also a time of like personal healing for me. I left home and um, was going through a breakup and so it was one of those moments where it was a very defining moment that I think about a lot because it's where I think I gained so much understanding of what.

Binds us all together as humans, like regardless of race, religion, culture, life, experience, there are these qualities inside of what it is to be a human. This is a part of what I talk about as our innate self. Um, and innate stands for our higher nature and it has eight characteristics, but um, there's some qualities to it and it's the thing that's in me, but that's also in you.

So it's individualistic and. And, um, it's, it's in us all. And I know we, in the Western paradigm, we don't think about that so much. We think about ourselves as very individualistic, but we, um. We are a part of something bigger than ourselves. And I think we forget that. Uh, and this was one of those moments in my life where I experienced it.

It wasn't an intellectual activity. It was a, a time of being with other people who couldn't, we couldn't share ideas and language, but we could share laughter, we could share food, we could share, uh, you could feel pain, you know? And I, and I got to be a, a receiver and a, um. And, and a coach in a, in a different way through that.

Uh, and it really made a huge impression on my life.

Roger: Something that you were just talking about in a previous response about impermanence. Hmm. Like all these changes, like we are on our journey and yet our brain is craving certainty. And I think that craving for certainty wants to lock us into, um, where we're at right now and all things, all things that we've learned, all things that we know are gonna happen.

They're all happening in this moment. That's probably not, not the case, and yet we're holding them all together 'cause we're the vessel, we're, we're the container for all those moments, all those hopes and fears and experiences. And yet I permanence tells us, I think a little bit of like, Hey, we can relax into this moment, that things will change.

That we are on a journey, that we are growing and it's gonna be different tomorrow or even in the next moment.

Jules: It's so true, and you know, this is, this is the practice piece of it, I think, because we can know that, and yet it is, can be so hard for us to embody that or to experience that. I had a really tough day, two or three days ago, and it was one of those days where I was like, okay, let me, you know, I had some bad meetings.

It was like some uncomfortable exchanges and it's so hard to turn it off. It's like, okay, let me set that aside and let me go on with my day. And you just like, you know, we get caught in the gunk and our minds spin over, you know, what could I have done differently? Or what did that person mean by that?

Like, we get so caught up in the micro meaning that we make out of these moments and it starts to have, um, I talk about micro meaning and macro meaning, and we can start to make it mean more than it does because we hold on and sue the truth of the matter is that. Uh, we are constantly evolving if we allow ourselves to, but it, it's, but it's an allowance.

We have, there's an ease that we have to have and I think it, it is a practice to know what should we hold on tightly two, and what do we need to, to let slip through our fingers? And that to me is a part of developing character's. Kind of like one of the first characteristics of our innate self that I talk about is, is our character.

And character to me is sort of the bedrock of our higher nature. What are your values? Um, what's, what's your moral code? Your ethics. But it's also like, how do you ha how do you wanna handle situations in life? Do you wanna handle them very seriously? Um, do you wanna ha have a little bit of grace? Do you wanna be gentle with it?

Um, do you wanna be humorous with it? Like we get to define those things. Um, but this. Connecting with ourselves and, um, and working on some of our own rough edges, you know, that, that exist within us and we all have them. So, um, but I think it's a, it's a, it's a daily practice.

Roger: I'm paraphrasing, I haven't heard you say these exact words, but getting out of your head, getting out of the rumination and the overthinking and then being more in that, that feeling sense? I think of my innate wisdom as something I feel, not something I think,

Jules: yes.

Roger: How you think about that instead? How do you feel about that?

Jules: Let's break us down like an ecosystem for a second, and I think about, I'll use the analogy of nature. So what we see in, when you see a tree, you see the tree, right?

You see the, the branches and the leaves and the stems. But what you don't see is the root system and the root system that interconnects with the tree next to its root system. And the fungi that lives that there are actually interceptors that send signals in between the trees and the whole ecosystem that's underneath and.

We are like that. We are like that on many levels. Like we are like that with each other, but we are also like that within ourselves. So we have the parts of us that we pay the most attention to. Our minds, um, our bodies and our, and our feelings. We, we also. Some of us pay more attention to it than others.

But then there's also this esoteric piece of us, this, what is that higher nature? What is the meaning in our lives? What is the purpose? Um, it's where our creativity stems from. It's where meaning comes from, like how we interpret meaning. It's where our courage comes from. And, and that's deep in the root system.

Uh, and, and we have to nurture it, and we get nurtured from other. Roots and other trees and other things inside, like other bits that, um, help pass things along. And so this to me is a part of why the connection piece is so important. It's a part of how we grow and nurture this, this piece of us. So I think of our, I think about us in a simplistic way of these four parts of self.

It's our minds, our bodies, our emotions, and our innate self, or our spiritual self is how a lot of people talk about it. Um, and I think that, you know, as we think about. Growing and becoming, and, um, that moment between stimulus and response and innate wisdom and all, all of those things, it's in, it's not in our heads.

Our heads are like the machine tools that really help us, like know our goals and go after our things and assess our lives and, um, they're really good at judging. But I talk about our minds as they're actually like a frenemy. It's there to help us, but it, it does this, it does a lot of other things besides help us.

And so we got some roommates that live up in our heads and, um, and we have to learn how to quiet some of that to connect with that more intuitive wisdom, that deeper knowing, um, that comes from our being, that comes from that essence, that comes from our innate wisdom. Uh, and it's not, it's not here. It's like much deeper

Roger: Is “innate” the shorthand for Inner Nature.

Jules: So let me tell you about innate. So I, um, I love a good double entendre. So this is it, right? It's innate and, but it stands for our higher nature that has eight characteristics, but it's also our innate self. To me it's about, um. It's about, it's the, it's the thing I was saying earlier.

It's the thing I have that's also in you that we all share that's in every human. And um, and there, and it comes with some characteristics and it comes with a conscience. It comes with a voice, it comes with some wisdom. Like there are all of these things that are sort of embedded in it. Um, but it's something we have to dig, we have to mind for.

It's deep in there and we can intellectualize it out. And so I think that's the thing. We have to really. Um, be conscious of conscious, and I mean that in a, in like a higher consciousness kind of way of, and it's hard work. I mean, it's really is like how to hear the difference between a feeling, your fear and your intuition and your thoughts.

Like those are different mechanisms. It's only through the practicing part. Do you start to get, uh, the distinctions down of like, oh, this is actually bubbling up from my intuition, versus, oh, I'm having a reaction to something and I'm feeling a little fear, um, versus I don't like this and my mind is telling me, get outta here.

And those are all different, different things that coexist in us, um, in that ecosystem way. And so learning how to decipher it requires kind of going that, that deeper internal connection piece.

Roger: In Sebene Selassie’s book, “You Belong,” she talks about this, this paradox of we're already connected for all the reasons you have just said, and yet we live life experiencing and looking for differences between each other yet, I mean, it's almost like the tree that's all about its branches and its leaves and how, you know, can it be taller than than the rest of the canopy so it gets more sunlight.

Yet the actual nature of the tree is that it's connected to all the trees around it. It's not in competition. And yet there's something that I think is very true and maybe it's a western culture thing or maybe it's just a human thing, where we feel like there is a little bit of like, we're not connected, we are independent.

We have to compete with one another. And not only is that probably counter to our inner nature, that's probably counter to. All of nature. And so I love how you're bringing this, bringing this forward. And again, it's this pathway. If we want to feel more connected with others, which we already are, the blocker is our relationship with ourself.

Jules: Yeah. And, you know, in a simplistic way, um, what I would say is I think about it as the difference between being in survival mode versus being in thrive mode. And I know thrive's not a word, but I'm trying to, I'm trying to turn it into word.

Roger: Oh it is here. Yeah,

Jules: it should totally be a word.

Survival. I think a lot of our kind of base nature pieces are wired towards that, right? Our minds think about how to protect ourselves. Um, a lot of, a lot of the reasons that we have those sneaky roommates in our head is to keep us from, you know, being in danger and being hurt, and they're, they're wired to help protect us.

And that's all coming from our need to survive. And that drives a lot of our competition. Uh, and, and. There is something, so there's something true to that. So let's hold two truths at the same time.

Roger: Jules, what do you know to be true about your superpower of helping others connect with themselves?

Jules: Everyone I have worked with wants to be known. Everybody wants to be known. Everybody wants to be understood on some level. And I think that if we can tap into that with each other, like and hold space. And I think that's what's drawn me to it. I've always had a heart for working with people who feel misunderstood.

And I think there's something so powerful about if we can hold that space. And when I talk about holding space, I really mean I'm gonna set aside all the thoughts that are going through my head. I'm gonna put, you know, all of my reactions to the side. I'm just gonna open myself up and see what you are bringing to the space and try to understand where you're coming from and know what's going on in your, like what fears are you feeling and what emotions are running through you.

It's actually a gift I give myself when I do that to, to fully, um, open up and be in the presence of someone else and to allow them to, to do that back. Um, and I think that we all want to have that. We all wanna have that presence. We all wanna have that exchange. We all wanna feel that kind of connection that is deeper like that.

I feel known, I feel seen, uh, and I feel understood.

Roger: And it's that, that paradox a little bit of we wanna be recognized as individuals and we want to be connected with, as you know, many, many people as possible.

Jules: The thing about what you're saying is that it is the difference of our minds versus our being a little bit, I think our mind.

I want to be that individualistic. I wanna be seen, I wanna be recognized. And I think there's something very, I, I'm, I wanna make a distinction about being understood is quite different than being recognized. You know, one of the things I talk about in, in the book is, um, let's not mistake, you know, substance for image.

And I think we, we can chase recognition because we're looking for validation. Um, and we do that a lot on social media. That is very different than feeling truly known. Understood. Um, like someone gets you, like that's a deeper thing and that's, that's, that's in our being, that's like a, wow. I sit with this person and, you know, we all have like, we have our friends that we can just be with, and we just naturally get into the flow and we just feel like, wow, how much time has passed?

Um, and it's so easy and I just feel like this person really gets me. And it's not an intellectual thing. It's a, it's a more. Innate, it's a more spiritual thing. Um, that's in our, that's in our being.

Roger: What did you believe early on about your superpower of helping people to connect with themselves that you've come to learn is no longer true?

Jules: A lot of times the things that we know, that we know about ourselves, our. Um, are somewhat superficial. It's the things that we've inherited. Maybe it's the, it's the ideas we have of ourself. You know, my sister and I have this conversation about like, what would ideal, ideal jewels do versus authentic jewels do?

And like there's this picture that we have in our heads of who we ought to be. And that comes from maybe our parents or our culture, our upbringing, and in my living in alignment with that mental image that I have of myself, of what I should be that's maybe somebody else told me to be. And a lot of times we get caught up in that paradigm of, of that, uh, person that we feel like we should be.

And I think that has to, we have to, we have to really blow past that. We have to really get through. That may be. A version of you, or it may be an option, but let's not assume or misunderstand that as being genuine to who you really wanna be. Letting go of the ideas that you have of yourself is a big part, I think, of genuinely understanding yourself.

And that's a paradox, right? It's these ideas we get attached to. A lot of times they're not actually genuinely a part of what we really wanna become. And so helping people and, and I've been through that in my own journey. Um, but it's, so much of the work that I do as a coach is helping people like get past what you think about yourself and what do you really wanna be and who do you wanna be and how do you wanna show up and who do you, how do you wanna contribute and what do you care about creating?

And I think we don't talk enough about creativity. Um, Roger, I think because we think about creativity as fairly narrow as like, I'm gonna be an art, you know, we talk about creativity and we think the artists that's sitting in front of the canvas that's painting and uh, a lot of people are like, oh, I'm, I'm not creative.

No, no, no, no, no. All human beings are born creators. We create our lives, we create our thoughts, we create our bodies, we create our circumstances. There's some things we can't control, but it doesn't mean we, we are not in. An an active participation of creation in our lives. And so we have to really expand our definition of creativity.

Uh, there's so much empowerment in that. Um, and, and that's a big piece to me of, uh, something that I've learned that I didn't know.

Roger: Early on, another theme that's been coming up in a lot of these conversations, and especially, I mean, it started coming up in conversations around joy and how difficult joy feels right now.

And several guests have talked about maybe an anecdote to feeling overwhelmed or feeling stressed out is leaning into our creativity. Some other guests have talked about our innate, our innate being. Is a creative being and that we are more true to ourselves, more authentic when we are leaning into that creativity.

And yet, I think a lot of us had the experience early on where we had evidence that we're not creative or we're not artistic. That led us to think, okay, no creativity is being able to paint really well, or to write poetry really well, or to sing really well or something like that. And that's not. That's not true.

Jules: Let's, let's break down. This is like one of my favorite topics right now. Let's break this down because I think what you just said is a hundred percent right. Again, this is one of the ideas that we have about ourselves is like creativity, looks like artistic creativity. That's what we're talking about here.

The painter, the singer, the writer, the poet, like that's a certain type of art, artistic creativity. Um, and we'll call that kind of creativity. Artistic, but there are other kinds of creativity. We have functional creatives. Functional creatives are the people who think about how do we design the infrastructure in our lives.

They're engineers, they're construction workers. They're the people who literally make our lives work and they're creating it. They're creating our roads and our houses and our buildings and like all of these very tangible things in our lives. And yet we somehow don't think about that as creativity. Um, but it's literally creating.

And so that's one type of creativity. Uh, and then we have our, our cognitive creatives and our cognitive creatives are the people who are coming up with ideas and theories and, um, are, they're idea people. And they, that shows up a lot of times in written words, but it can come out in things like podcasts.

Um, but it's, they're idea people, they're generating hypothesis and, and coming up with, um. With, with things that make us think differently. And then we have our artistic creatives, which we've already talked about, and then we have our innovator, innovative creatives. And these are the people who are literally looking into the future and creating a way forward.

Um, and we think of like classic people like Albert Einstein fall into that. You know, I mean, he fell into several bucket of creative, but, um, but you know, the people who are literally designing. What things could be like AI has come out of this type of creativity, uh, this innovation, creativity, and a lot of like the, you know, the way we think about power and, uh, in our, like, in a physical way, there's so many different types of creativity.

And so I think once we start to expand it, um, in conversations we be like, oh. I'm totally a functional, creative, like I can build something, gimme Legos all day long. I can build anything like that. It it shows you, and this is the thing I would say, like go back to the thing that you liked to do as a kid.

Did you, did you like to think through? Were you an idea person? Were you an artistic person? Were you a builder? Um, or were you like an innovator? Like were you trying to, like, did you pull out that chemistry set and you were trying to figure out how you could make things bubble? You know, it, it helps us understand.

That natural inclination. 'cause we all have something, we all have some kind of creativity. Uh, and I think there's a, a, a freedom and a playfulness that comes through our creativity if we can allow it and let go of some of those thoughts we have about ourselves.

Roger: This idea that we're naturally creative in those categories that you just talked about, again, that's getting into our innate self and being able to understand, okay, what is that thing?

That space where I can be creative, that's where I'm gonna find joy. It's where we're gonna find when, where, when joy is present, value or values are present, purpose is present. And that gets us to, you know, when we're spending more time and purpose and values, we're spending more time in a meaningful life.

Jules: Absolutely. And I think it's such an important thing to recognize, like if we aren't using our creativity, um. For, for good, it will become destructive because either way, we have this creative energy and we've gotta do something with it. And so we either create or we destroy, but it's something that lives inside of us.

And so the thing I would say, and I, and I say this to people that I'm working with, like if you're feeling self-destructive, if there are self-destructive things that you're doing, I almost guarantee you your creativity doesn't have a positive outlet. And there's something so powerful about flipping that and just opening that up to say like, what would you love to be doing?

Often we just don't give ourself permission to, to think like that. We think that's childish, or we think that that's like, I have to be serious and grown up. Um, but it, it doesn't lead to. A joyful life, it leads us to start to self implode. And I think we just have to really recognize there's so much power.

We're creators in our own lives, but if we're not creating, we, we might be destroying. Coming back to the power of connection for a moment, like one of the reasons that I care so much about the understanding people and helping people be understood is so often we don't understand ourselves and we actually need someone else to be a mirror to us.

To help us see where we're blocked and, and that's the power to me of coaching. But it's really just the power of connection. It's like when you have someone that's genuinely tapped in and genuinely trying to understand you, they sometimes can see better than you can. 'cause you're stuck in your own, in your own perspective, in your own gunk and in your own attachment to whatever ideas.

Um, but working through that to say, hold on, I, I hear like. You really wanna go do this thing? Like have you actually explored that? And sometimes there can be real revelation in that, like, wow, no, I haven't, I haven't thought about that. Um, and I think it's such a, such a powerful thing to be able to do.

Roger: So Jules, what's next for you and your superpower of helping people connect with themselves?

Jules: This has been a big moment, um, to release my first book and, um, and so starting to have lots of conversations like this, but the thing I really want to do is to start to build those container spaces. So I'm gonna start offering in November, I have my first event coming up, um, and it in Phoenix where it'll be pulling people together.

To talk about our innate cells, we're gonna do it in, in a beautiful kind of natural environment. Um, and to, to start to build like a place and some space for this connection to, to get into that root system, um, and to really digest like what's going on and where do you wanna go in your own life. Uh, and I think doing that with other people who are in that.

That seeking, there's something so enriching to our lives. Um, and so I, I am just so excited to be able to get to, uh, to partake in that and to, to help lead that. Um, and so that'll be a big part of what's, what's next for me is starting to, to host those kind of, of retreats.

Roger: Hmm. And I love how you're using, you, you talk about nature a lot.

I think there's sort of part of the human experiences where we feel like we're, you know, there's nature and then there's us, and you know, that's part of the fallacy of being exceptional human beings is that No, no, no. We're, we're, we're part of nature and so we can look to nature to actually be a guide.

For us, and that's been something that's been very apparent in this conversation. If people want to follow you, learn more about you and maybe take part in some of these events you have planned, where would you like to point them to?

Jules: Yeah, so I have a website, so if you're interested in a retreat, reach out to me on the website.

It's innate self.com. Um, I have my books on Amazon, um, and I am on Instagram Innate Coach. Um, all of it is in the letter N and the number eight. Um, and yeah, that's where you can, you can connect with.

Roger: Outstanding, and I'll put all the links in the description so people can, uh, N eight is pretty easy to spell, but you know, I'll, I'll, I'll do my best.

Getting that correct, but it's really important to me to make sure people are able to connect with you. Jules, are you ready for the lightning round?

Jules: I'm ready.

Roger: Okay. Fill in the blank. Helping people connect with themselves is

Jules: key.

Roger: Who in your life provides. Helping you connect with yourself?

Jules: My husband, and my best friend.

Roger: Is there a practice or routine that helps you grow, nurture or renew your ability to help others connect with themselves?

Jules: Yes. I definitely have to rejuvenate in nature. Um, to retap back into the, the, the essence that is larger than myself.

Roger: I've heard some people will talk about touch grass.

Jules: And

Roger: I've, I've thought of that as a metaphor.

And then lasly, I've actually been going out and touching grass. But it's very, the power is being very literal, not metaphorical.

Jules: Yeah, absolutely.

Roger: Is there a book or movie you recently read or watched that you would recommend that has, helping others connect with themselves is a theme?

Jules: You know, the, the one that I recently went back and reread is A Man's Search For Meaning.

And you mentioned it earlier, so I feel like we should say it, um, because I think it's such a beautiful, um, it's a beautiful. Story of pain and getting through, you know, if you're not familiar with it, it's the story of the Holocaust, right? Of, of Viktor Frankl having lived through that. And, um, and he talks about what it was, who he was before that experience, and then who he was after that experience.

And it's written from a psychologist perspective. So it's just such a beautiful, um, walkthrough. The worst of humanity and coming out with the brightest perspective. And I just found, I find that to be so, um, isn't that the juice isn't, that, isn't that here to try to do

Roger: Oh, you love your polarities. I, I, I enjoy being with people who really enjoy polarities.

Yeah. Uh, some, sometimes I don't know if they're even aware of how much the polarities weave in and out of the conversations, but yeah, I mean, that is where the juice is of understanding like, you know, it's, it's not, um, whether it's Harry Potter or Star Wars, it's not this combination of, or you, the lack of combination of someone is not all good or someone's not all bad.

It's like we have both of that inside of us and it's all about our choices.

Jules: Absolutely. I think about that. I think about that Native American story where the grandson's sitting with the grandfather and he's telling the story of like, there's two wolves that live inside of you, and the grandson's like, well, which one of 'em wins?

And the grandfather says, it's the one you feed. And I think about that. So much. And I think if we can embrace that kind of thinking, we get out of our own traps of judgment to say, oh, I'm, I'm good or I'm bad. No, you are becoming, and you are always becoming what you choose to feed and there's so much power and freedom and beauty and light in that.

Um, but it's your choice and you have to cultivate it, and it's something you have to do every day. Some days we have setbacks, but it's a, it's an art of living, I think. And I think there's something just really powerful about that. Reframe very creative in nature.

Roger: And even the story of the two wolves, again, going back to nature.

Yes. Which we, yeah, yeah. We are natural, we are part of nature. And why not, you know, why not embrace that?

Jules: And Roger just. To punctuate that point. I'm just gonna say this one thing I, 'cause I don't think, I think this is like so obvious, but to notice it when there's nothing else to talk about, what do humans go to?

Roger: The weather.

Jules: Yes. We go to nature. There's nothing else to talk about. We start talking about nature. That's what we do. And

Roger: Jules, what's one thing that gets in your way of helping others connect with themselves?

Jules: I think it's something that I would say that the thing that gets in my way is the thing. I feel like we all get caught in our heads and you know, worried about, oh, what are people thinking or feeling self-conscious or afraid of the vulnerability or.

We stew over uhoh. Did I do that right? Um, you know, there's a vulnerability in living and there's just a vulnerability inherent in it, and there's a vulnerability inherent in con contributing. And people will judge you and you will judge yourself. And that's a part of living. And you have to just work through it.

And I think having grace with yourself is the, is the answer and grace with each other, I think is, is key. Um. But don't be afraid. Don't let the fear stop you. You just have to move, move through it, which is why courage is one of those innate characteristics. It's just so important. It's just to get up and to do it every day.

Um, and we do it for the sake of ourselves and we do it for the sake of others.

Roger: My friend April McCormick will, will often ask like, are we making decisions out of love or out of fear?

Jules: Mm-hmm.

Roger: And that idea that we get to choose is so, so vital.

Jules: Absolutely.

Roger: Jules, this conversation has been so wonderful. I love, again, how you dance with polarities within and outside of those paradoxes and have it all come back to not, you know, nature, but the nature inside of all of us.

Um. Which love, love that. And it seems, seems like I'm just paraphrasing or saying the same thing that's in this concept of tapping into our innate self and our innate wisdom. Mm-hmm. Um, and that we, you know, I love how in this conversation we, we were talking about how we're, we're already connected, but we want connection.

And the thing that prevents connection. Is our relationship with ourself. Again, little polarity that we're dancing with. Mm-hmm. I could go on for hours with you and I hope I get that chance in the future, but I wanted to say thank you for this conversation and thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.

Jules: It's been an absolute pleasure. Um, I think what you're doing is so amazing, and thank you for, for having me on. And I've, uh, I love the energy that you bring and the, the presence that you hold and that everyone does that. So, um, thank you for, thank you for the work you're doing in the world.

Roger: Hmm. Uh, thank you for that gift.

Okay. Be well. Bye-Bye bye.

Thank you all for being in this conversation with us, and thank you, Jules, for bringing the wisdom about connecting with our innate self. The question I'm asking myself after this conversation is, where in my life might I be in destructive mode so that I can flip that and instead be constructive by turning on?

My innate creativity, what do you know to be true? As a Three Blue Pens production. And I'm your host, Roger Kastner. We're recording on the ancestral lands of the Duwamish and Suquamish people to discover the ancestral lands of the indigenous people whose land you may be on. Go to native hyphen lands.ca.

Okay. As always, be well, my friends. Love you mean it. Do you remember PeeWee's Playhouse? Yeah. You know how when there would be the word of the episode and some, someone would say something and everything would go crazy, uh, liberation is a value of mine. So when you said, when you said liberate, like,

Jules: yep, that's it.

Roger: Good answer.

I, I will edit that part out, but I mean, it's like, it's like, wow. Yeah. No, that's, I think you just came up with a thumbnail. Your mind is your frenemy

Jules: have a chapter. I have a chapter called that.